Split discussion from the 2016 Canada GP thread.

^^^ This post was reported, but I find nothing in it that contravenes the rules. There are no personal attacks, merely an unpopular view - if you don't like it, ignore it. Being a myopic Hamilton fan is not a bannable offence.

As an aside, toil: the car itself is a factor too.

^^^ Personal attack, 7-day ban.

We've already said many times in the past that piling onto a member for expressing support for an unpopular team or driver with the intent of running them off the site is not permitted.

I've tried to explain that multiple times in the past, but to no avail. Let me try a radically different approach:

If I applied a ban for every report on a positive/dreamy comment about a non-Ferrari driver, or a negative comment about a Ferrari driver, there'd be nobody here but myopic Ferrari fans who think the team and its drivers can do no wrong. What will we have to talk about then?

"Ferrari is the best!"

"NO, *I* THINK FERRARI IS THE BEST!"

"I thought Ferrari was the best long before you guys were even born!"

"Apart from not winning the race today, Ferrari did the best job out there."

"Mercedes cheated by building a better car with more horsepower."

"I agree."

"Nobody agrees more than me!"​

Maybe after that enthralling conversation we could all sing Kumbaya Ferrari on Cavallino-branded logs around the Scuderia-approved campfire while we see visions of Enzo in the smoke...

You guys are really going to have to grow a thicker skin when it comes to opposing opinions - even if those opinions are poorly informed or demonstrably false. Far too often when someone posts something pro-Hamilton, rather than either ignoring it as unworthy of your interaction or debating the point like informed motorsports fans, you either respond by immaturely calling the poster names and/or you come crying to me to ban him for not being a FERRARI fan on a FERRARI forum. I can't count how many times people have chosen to remind me in reports and PMs that I moderate on a FERRARI forum - thanks, gentlemen, I've noticed!!!

Seriously: buck up.

Sincerely,
Andrew.

 

Congratulation Andrew...toil played you like a puppet. He frustrates people to the point of crossing YOUR line. Why do you allow people who purposely frustrate others to continue unabated? Personally, I think he's hilarious, but not for any reason that's flattering....just saying....but others are just driven to distraction by him.

What about when toil called someone mad the other day? That was ok, right?

 

It's not MY line, it's the line drawn by the rules of Rob Lay's site and the enforcement is in a manner agreed by the moderation team and approved by Rob. I just happen to be on point in this area lately - everything I do is logged in the mod forum, so I'd very quickly get called out in there if I was drawing my own personal lines in here. In fact, I have reversed actions in the past when that has inadvertently been the case.

If folks can't stand the sight of someone's posts, they should put them on ignore. It's not a perfect solution, but it's the only one available. If that individual really isn't valued in any form by anyone, they'll get bored just talking to themselves and move on.

Toil's response "u mad" didn't have any value to it (and, honestly, the syntax was personally irritating to me), but seemed an obvious observation to someone essentially telling him to leave the site and don't come back. People are far too sensitive to him because, in their eyes, he myopically supports the wrong driver. If he supported a Ferrari driver with such narrow fervor (and we have a few of those types too), he'd merely be viewed as passionate and not problematic. Again: buck up.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

wow...do you actually believe what you just wrote? I mean, thanks for giving it the time you did, but I needed a bucket by the end of it.

Look, I don't have any problem with toil's posts because his posts are hilariously absurd....so are lots of mine.....we can't all be geniuses, but I'm not sure that his intentions are honourable, even though you seem convinced they are. If you keep banning people because their frustrations are causing them to break the 'rules', then don't you finally have to consider that you're banning the wrong person? How many people have you now banned who lost their sh** over a post from toil? Just think about that.

Maybe you're actually not online enough to pick up on the undertone of his posts. He's needling people and you keep overlooking it.

In summary, I'm not happy that you've banned Bas, whom I don't know from a bar of soap.

Anyway, it's your sandbox....do whatever you like. I just don't think you're seeing the big picture. I think your view is too simplistic. No offence.

Toil's been needling Bas for a year btw. He just does it in a way that's under your radar. It should be considered trolling imo, but maybe the definition i have is different.

I'm just putting my thoughts into words and nevertheless I appreciate the thankless job you're doing.

 

Wow! Just wow!

I get where you're coming from, but 7 days!? For one of the most knowledgeable posters here. Really?

As already noted, I don't think any of us have a problem with 'supporters' of any team. I'm something of a fan of Sir Frank for example. F1's an emotional topic but I'm sorry to say toil is a troller, pure & simple.

I guess he 'won' - got Bas banned for a week.

Cheers,
Ian

 

I understand.

This has been debated in the mod forum. People need to deal with their frustrations in ways that don't break any rules. It's not my job to protect people from viewpoints they don't want to read, which seems to be all we find whenever we investigate alleged needling. When I do get a reported post, I do read a few pages before and after it to make sure I understand the context.

Perhaps you could convince others to view such posts with good-natured amusement rather than with reactions that will deprive us of their contributions. It would be a big help, seriously.

As for my online time, alas, I'm not able to watch any of the races live, I can only get the highlights, often delayed 5 hours, so it's impossible to participate in the live debates without spoiling the later viewing.

If you guys consider it losing to toil to receive a ban, then please don't do anything that would warrant a ban.

Being a knowledgeable poster isn't taken into consideration when applying the rules, since they're supposed to be uniformly applied to everyone. For what it's worth, I really enjoy Bas' posts too and I really didn't like having to apply that ban.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Bas banned for a week?? That's hilarious!
Over a comment he made on Toil?? That's plain lunacy.

 

I've tried, but no one else seems to have the same sick sense of humour that I do.

your heartbreak seems genuine...but then, I'm far far away.

 

^^^^this.....but I'm not calling anyone a lunatic because I don't feel like getting banned today

 

+ 1
One frustrating part is that the mods explain: If you want us to act, then report.

Then I report and get messaged that the mods don't see anything offensive. They only look at every single message individually. And toil is exploiting their rigidity like a champion. The mods with their stubborn sticking to their rules continue to permit the low level of enjoyment here.

We all know what great folks are around here. And frankly, there is usually quite robust disagreements here and everyone is just happy to go along afterwards, no harm done. Except toil... Well, Andrew, he is the mods child. You guys made him and groomed him. This is your board after all. A pity Bas had to go on holiday.

The greatness of this board is something I remember but soon it will become a myth people talk about...

 

Common denominator theory.

Just an fyi, but I have almost ceased posting anywhere but the private forums because of people like him. I'm not interested in spending my limited free time being trolled. My IQ doesn't allow me to play on that low a level.

 

So why is it always toil involved in the discussions leading to a ban? Is it coinvident? I doubt...
So obviously toil is keeping on posting to get a reaction out of others and he gets it...But posting to get a reaction is trolling by the boards definition so why did this never lead to a ban?

Andrew: as you are a doctor...When someone has a virus the immune system is reacting and because the immune system works that hard you feel weak. If the immune system does not work you do not feel that sick in the beginning but the virus will multiply.
Putting toil as a virus and some long standing members of the board as immune system (just as a synonyme, no offence intended) your suggestion was always the immune system should back up and wait that the virus looses interest...Is this really how one would deal with an infection? I doubt because we all know what will happen then...

 

Andrew's a doctor? Well there you go.

 

Well said

 

1.2 No "Trolling": Please do not post any topic that disrupts the peace and harmony of this community. Don't create meaningless threads with the sole purpose of starting a dispute. This includes messages in profiles and signatures.

This is where rules become subjective. What we see as disrupting the peace and harmony of this community, you might see as expressing ones opinion. Everyone here understands what he's doing, and yes i think he's skirting on the edge of the rules. But there is an easy solution, just don't respond to him anymore. If the "triplets" ,as they're called, are that annoying, just leave them alone and don't respond.

Personally, i don't even respond anymore. I put my 2 cents about the race in and i leave. Unless we're discussing Hamilton, he never chimes in. When we talk about history or other races, he's an average poster. When Hamilton gets mentioned, he's intolerable.

(thanks for moving, i didn't see the split thread)

 

I was splitting it while you were typing.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Viruses thrive best when undiscovered by the immune system enabling them to hijack cells to replicate themselves. If ignored, they'll spread.

Forum trolls thrive best upon the negative reactions people give them. If they're ignored, there's really no point to continuing, so they get bored and quit.

If you think someone is a subtle troll, the best way to handle them is to ignore them completely - stick them on ignore so they can't PM or email you, don't post in threads they start, don't reply to their posts, and don't discuss them at all even if others respond in discussion with them. Pretend they simply do not exist and, if trolling is their primary aim, it's the worst thing you can do to them.

Well, no, not a medical doctor. Neuroscience PhD, which gives me the title "Dr." as a doctor of philosophy.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Bas in no way deserves to be banned through the next race. Period. 2 day-3day ya ok. He is hardly a trouble maker or a negative influence here. Buck up and fix the ban since that is not too much to ask for a well respected member.

 

I'd like to think that advice will be taken Andrew, if it is the F1 section will be a much more pleasant place to be. I have my doubts though.

 

The standard ban length for any FChat transgression is 1 week. This must be manually commuted if a moderator wants to apply a lesser duration. We've relaxed a bit from the 1-month, 3-month, permanent bans we were applying throughout the 2015 season, but that crackdown to try to recover the tone very effectively demonstrated that leniency isn't the way to go in the F1 forum. He received the standard ban.

There will not be one rule for unpopular users and a gentler rule for popular/valued contributors or any exemptions for people I actually like. If that inflexibility in the enforcement of the rules makes me unpopular, so be it - at least it's fair with everyone getting the same treatment over the same actions.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Yes, I know: the wiser head gives in....
BUT: that always leaves the last word to the stupid ones...poor world, poor forum

 

Seems like a great idea. We should try it out.

 

I got banned for 30 days for calling someone an idiot who flat out trolled me and essentially called me stupid and ignorant about F1 because I disagreed with his Alonso opinion. The ban is the ban and as guests here, we have to live by what's decided even if we think it's totally unfair or at best overly harsh as in Bas's case. I survived, and so to will Bas. He's an important contributor and look forward to him coming back already. At least everyone is coming to his defense where all you jack holes didn't even know I was gone!! ;-)

I don't get why some let Toil and others get you so upset in the first place. He loves Lewis and thinks the world of his favorite driver. In his eyes, he can do no wrong and therefore his opinion will always be dramatically skewed. I agree that it's not an effective foundation for quality discussion/debate, but he's entitled to his acute passion for Lewis. I read his posts and most times... I just roll my eyes because I know what to expect. Some of his posts are good, however. He shouldn't make everyone so crazy. Just ignore him if his posts just get to you.

 

THATS IT! 7 Day ban for interpretation!

 

Hamilton sucks!