SPOILER -- CAN'T DEFEND MASSA ANYMORE

LOL!

Imagine how much crap Massa would catch is he was overly aggresive when defending his position, and ended up getting taken out of the race? Probably close to the amount Hamilton would catch if he was the one who pushed that Photographer over.

 

Wrong again! I have taken a close hard look, at Rubens performance in the same time period as Massa, Massa is better than Rubens in the 2006/2007/2008 Ferrari. While Rubens was good for the team back in the Schumacher years, Massa is good for the team today. He is leading his overpriced teammate in the WDC, he has more wins that translate to more points for the WCC. Statistically, at least according to SpeedTV's charts, he is the fastest driver out there up until Hockenheim. Only Lewis Hamilton was a bit faster. He is not only the best Ferrari has, he has only one serious competitor.

Get real Ted.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe that Rubens ever took the lead in the WDC.

 

I don't believe he was contractually allowed to...

 

Ron,

I don't even know where to begin, this statement is so over-the-top ridiculous.

 

Denial is not a river in Egypt. If you think Senna was a saint, just as you believe Ron Dennis is a gentleman, you have stolen my old medications. It ain't me that is over the top ridiculous.

 

It's spot on. All fact.

 

I disagree.

The issue at hand was the imposition of team orders in the first place in that particular situation. It was the 5th race in the season (IIRC) and Schumacher already had a sizable lead in the championship. Was this not the year that he would up winning 13 GPs? The Ferrari of that season was arguably the most dominant team in F1 history. Calling for Rubens to move over in that race made a farce of the entire contest.

I recall the crowd's reaction quite vividly as I recall my own. Amazement and disgust. The booing was well-deserved. Rubens was untouchable that day and he beat Schumacher fair and square. Orchestrating the finish as the team did when it was so unnecessary made a farce out of the sport and led directly to the ridiculous team order rule that we have today. There was NO reason for Rubens to have been ordered to move over and all he did was follow instructions given to him. That it was so transparent is not his fault, it is the fault of the ones who ordered the move in the first place.

 

Fact.

Fiction, without any possibility of being proven true.

Also RB was in a Ferrari when 1-2 finishes were a 50/ 50 chance every weekend based on how good the car was compared to the other cars on the grid. I could have brought that car home in the points half the time during those years for cryin' out loud.

 

I agree, A complete and utter farce...

 

Sure it can. He moved over in Austria, didn't he? You think he did that becuase he is a nice guy or becuase his contract stipulated that he had to agree to team orders.

Schumacher had contractually guaranted exclusive use of the spare car his entire career at Ferrari. He had veto authority over his teammate (until LdM stepped in with Kimi) his entire career at Ferrari. Do you seriously think for a second that he was not contractually guaranteed #1 status?

 

That is simply not true. Rubens was ahead because Schumacher wasn´t attacking. Why should he, knowing very well that the win would be his according to the team tactics? Question is, why didn´t Rubens know?

 

+1

Jimmy Clark had 25 wins and only 1 second place finish in his career.

The "hold station and settle for the points" argument was also used as an excuse for Massa's failing to pass Timo Glock at Montreal. Imagine, a WDC contender who can't pass either Timo Glock or Nelson Piquet Jr.? Yes, I can't either.

Massa can't pass. He can't win from behind. He will never be WDC.

 

Ahem...Rubens was on pole and Schumacher had the fastest lap that day. I was watching that race live, as were many folks here. Schumacher was beaten that day by Rubens. He set fastest lap trying to catch up to Rubens.

 

Surely was in problems with the car - Ferrari still leads with both drivers still in good position for the title - so really no issue

Good luck to SCuderia in next races

 

Clark's era and cars were so much different then. But then, why didn't you also mention how many times Clark finished 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 10th, etc? Even the two years he was WDC he finished 2nd, 3rd, 8th, 10th, and retired twice.

Amazing how you can twist reality to attempt to make a point. :O

We have all watched Massa pass in the rain and dry. But we also watched as a WDC or two, or three, could not pass because their cars were not effective on that race day. Like Raikkonen Sunday not able to pass Kubica. Like races where Schumacher just held back. At least they didn't intentionally ram the rear of a competitor they could not pass.

We also watched Sato pass two time WDC Alonso/McLaren on the track**. So what?

So as long as the WCC/WDC is considered so critical, the "hold station and settle for points" argument is valid for winning the championship.

Your point about Massa is not.

At the end of the day, winning the championship, WCC first, and WDC second, is the driver's priority, not winning an individual race. The only way you might change this approach is to give points for leading the race, for fastest race lap, etc, not only to the driver but to the chassis. You might then see a bit more effort, and less pit instruction to hold off.



**Still my favorite F1 moment of this decade.

 

Because I didn't have those statistics at hand. I wrote that off the top of my head. Clark is famous for having only finished 2nd once.

Since you asked, he had 6 third place finishes, 4 fourth place finishes, 3 fifth place finishes, one sixth place finish, and two 10th place finishes.

I do recall that one of his thrid place finishes came when he went from dead-last in the field, down a lap, all the way back into the lead before a mechanical problem dropped him to third a lap or two before the finish. I believe it was Italy 1967 IIRC.

By the way, Clark is the only driver I consider a challenger to Senna's title as Greatest F1 Driver Who Ever Lived. I can't begin to imagine the records either of those two would have set had they lived.

 

Nuvolari? Stefan Bellof?

 

wow, you are creative. You are using the fact that Schumacher had the fastest lap of the race as a point that proves Rubens was dominating...

Fact remains that during the Schumacher era, as long as the drivertitle was still open, either Irvine or Barrichello would never win a race when Schumacher was in second. So, why was Barrichello surprised and why did he everything in his power to place both the team and Schumacher in an embarrasing position by delaying the execution of the order. As said, I would have sacked him right then and there. I would allow him to pick up the trophy but I would be phoning with my lawyers right after the national anthems.

 

So a change of address and what "I think" proves RB was never allowed to take the lead in the WDC. Good detective work.