The Series Oro MV Agusta F4 came with a mahogany and glass show case! I suspect there are some out there without a mile on them...what a waste! The first one belongs to the king of Spain (001/300) and was the featured bike at the Guggenheim's "art of the motorcycle". In Las Vegas, the king's bike was gone replaced by another Oro.
I agree with you completely on A, but where did you get B??? I have never seen a manufacturer quote a RWHP number. And actually, all the manufacturers are talking about their new 160hp bikes, but they all make about 145 to the wheel. So they are either all lying, or they are quoting FWHP numbers.
Art, Pee Wee is a name I hadn't heard since the late eighties. My childhood friend's mom went out with him. Craig and I went out and bought our 1985 Ninja 600's and thought we were the next Freddie Spencer's. Pee Wee and Craig and I went out to ride the Ortega , Pee Wee took off on his V-Max and I was hard on the gas (or so I thought ). Testosterone is a dangerous thing at that age and I was dragging parts on every corner ,when I finally got near him he glanced over and said it's sure cold out here. He had been riding with one hand in his pocket. Right after that I went to Keith Code's school to learn to ride. Did you watch Daytona and the Aaron Yates WWF show ? What a knucklehead , the back marker jerk off salute was priceless.
If you look at http://www.sportrider.com/ you will see the 1 litre bikes are being rated by the manufactures in the 180 HP range, and dynoing in the 155 HP range. I was wrong in the manufacture rating claim, but if you dig deeper, the bike magazines rate the bike's performance based on their own dynomometers (completely ignoring the manufactures claims other than a brief sentance containing the claim). See attached picture: If Automobile magazines did the same, we (the consumers) would be much more informed as to the actual performance of the delivered vehicles.
This is absolutely correct. I know some top racers who mentioned to me that they are aways working to get close to the hp of the liter bikes but that the bikes are even out of their league.
Yates needs a little suspension. This isn't the first timie he's acted badly. Even though I've represented the team on occassion, they need to do something about his bad behavior. He did apologize in RoadracingWorld. PeeWee was a good friend of Steve McLaughlin, another of my era's riders. Gene Romero, now an executive for Honda, I believe, once made the comment that Steve would have been the fastest guy on the track if you could hook his lip up to his rear tire. The kids are too well behaved today (except for Yates). As to the comments about Dynojet. Formula USA switched offical Dynos for Daytona, and started using the FACTORY dyno (Mark, the owner is a client and a friend), the correction ratio was minus 13%. The difference between the two sets of reading is apparently relatively complex, but those who are engineering types, and knowledgeable say that the FACTORY unit provides more accurate readings. However, that doesn't mean that the Dynojet units are useless. For those of us who've used them, what you are looking for with a dyno is repeatability, so that you can see the effect of your changes when tuning the vehicle. The actual numbers are essentially meaningless. Having said that, there was some uncertainity in the Dynojet readings, as I recall, perhaps at Atlanta, because of the humidity, the dyno jet read higher than expected, and almost disqualifed the entire field. Art
Bikes have transmission losses of less than 10%. The numbers you are quoting sound like a VERY low reading dyno. The most common dyno in use for bikes world wide is the Dynojet. The current version with brake (required for tuning link software) produces the numbers I have quoted. My dyno numbers come from the Aussie factory Suzuki superbike team, where all my dyno work is done, they have had access to the bikes, so my statement is a fact, not an opinion or a rumour. The Honda, Yamaha and Kwaka have all been released for a while now to the race teams Check out www.sportrider.com, they have dyno's for most of these bikes online now, which concur with my posting. EDIT: Looks like I wasn't the only one picking up SRT Mike on his post.
Stephens: those numbers are consistent with the most recent RoadracingWorld test coming out this month (in a new format). That test didn't have the Yamaha, but all of the other, and the numbers are consistent. Whether they are accurate on an absolute scale is another story as I've mentioned above. It is interesting to note that in that same test, the bikes were driven at California Speedway (Fontana) and the trap speeds were in the 153 - 157 range. Bostrum was at the track during that time period, and his Ducati, which makes about 165 HP was going 168 through the traps at the same time. The Suzuki had, I believe the fastest trap speed, despite having the lowest HP of the group. That speed was set by Chris Ulrich, who of the three riders was the fastest. Art
Can we get some info regarding if you had the following choices which would you buy and why: 1)2004 R1 2)2002 748 mono 3)2002 996
I happen to have a 93 Ducati 900 SS with the following mods: Fast by Ferrachi engine {944 kit, lightened, balanced, knife edged crank, titanium rods, 11.5:1 compression, flow work on the heads, carb work, spaghetti exhaust} and a bunch of carbon fiber parts. It only dynos in the 89 HP range but only weights in at 365 lbs. Its plenty faster than am I, makes beautiful noise, and is a lot faster than I end up wanting to go. It has enough TQ to lift the front wheel while leaned over in a turn, hold the front wheel off the ground (basically) forever, and pull so hard I have trouble staying on the damnable thing. It should top out in the 165 range, but I have never found the gumption to go past 150. For me (51 years old), its enough. I really can't imagine 180 HP (twice as much) with similar weight.
Thanks Mitch! I currently have 2 suzuki gsx-r 750s. One is a few years old, and the other is 2002. I want to sell the older one and upgrade to a new one. So I am not sure if I want one of the fastest liter bikes and get the R1, or go for design/heritage/classic beauty and my high school dream of the 748/996. I am really torn. Then again I don't want to be seen as a guy who just went out and bought a countach just because it was his dream as a kid. The countach is cool and all, but is outdated and very old skool compared to new sports cars. I do not know if I am making any sense. I guess I don't want to buy a 748 and the next day think, man this is just really old technology and its heavy, and it was a dumb choice. or just buy the R1 and have the newest gadgets. SIgh. I want to make my choice within the year.
LA, There is no 2002 996. It was upgraded to the 998 Testastretta that year, which, IMO is the nicest bike ever. I love the 748 and the 996, too but technologically, the 998 is way ahead. It's the same engine that's in the 99 but in a better chassis, IMO.
I have seen a few dynoes of the 04's and I never saw one as high as that one listed for the ZX-10R. I have the priviledge to supply parts to some of the companies who worked on the bike and who got early versions, and I've never heard of dynoes as high as sportrider is listing. You talked about the numbers on Sportrider - they use a superflow dyno, which allows the operator to enter a correction value, which then produces the HP numbers. The dynojet will offer uncorrected or corrected numbers, but doesn't allow the operator to choose a correction factor. I have seen at least three seperate dynoes of the 2004 R1, and all were between 145 and 149 RWHP. The ZX-10's aren't out yet, but I don't think Dynojet numbers on them will be 160RWHP. Your l33t connections may have access to all these bikes (even though Kawasaki USA doesn't), but until the production bike hits the streets and the rags test them in unbiased tests, the only info we have is a list from Sportrider that is high across the board, and is countered by several 2004 R1 dynoes that are a good 10-12RWHP lower. When the ZX-10's and CBR1000's come out, we will see if those also dyno lower in the real world like the R1 did. I guess the proof will be in the 1/4 times. My 01 R1 would consistently run around a 10.3@135mph. I am very interested to see the results from the 04 bikes - mine will be here in April, and since I am at the track 2-3 times a week, I am pretty sure I will squeeze the very best out of it. Let's revisit this one in a couple of months and see who is wrong and who is right. So just to be clear, you're saying the 04 ZX-10 is 160RWHP and I'm saying it's more like 145RWHP. We shall see.
Mitch: My 1985 Panta based Ducati which I won a couple of championships on was as follows: 1. 830cc engine (Steve Wynne crankshaft, with an overbore), heads welded up, and raised. Makes 90HP on the FACTORY DYNO. 2. Chassis is a Harris, alumium, wheels magnesium, Dymags 3. White Power Forks, upside down. 4. Much carbon fibre. 5. Bike weighs with gas 287#. That's right 287. In restoration now, will be mounting it on the wall somewhere. Art
Hey Art, Do you have any pics of your bikes? They sound very cool and I would love to see pics. P.s. I agree with you 100% on Yates. He was suspended today for 1 race, with a $5k fine. Serves him right.
Yes, 998. Sorry my mistake. I am not sure with my size and stature a 998 is right for me. It seems to heavy. So you would take the 998 over the R1? How is the technology diff between the 998 and the 748? I would just buy a new ducati 749/999 but they are hideous!
SRT Mike 145rwhp is 20% losses, which is way too high. I do a lot of dyno work so have a good exposure to numbers on various dynos, I have developed my own "dyno conversion" factors. Your numbers would be correct on a older model Dynojet or Dyno Dynamics unit, which read about 4% lower than the current Dynojet for bikes and 8% for cars, but even then I still think they are low, I would expect to see around 150hp on these units, for the 04 R1's. FYI, the dyno we use reads a stock 2003 GSXR1000 150-152hp, 2002 GSXR1000 144-146hp, Aprilia RSV 112-114hp, Ducati 999 116-119hp, 2000 Yamaha R1 126-130hp, 2002 R1 134-136hp. At the end of the day absolute numbers aren't important, it is the comparative numbers on the same dyno that count.
An old Bevel Drive--cool! Do you have to hold you head above the front bar and chest over the tank just to keep enough weight on the front end not to flip over backwards? I am running Marvic Magnesium wheels, made a much bigger handling change than anticipated by getting rid of a lot or gyroscopic effects.
To go fast enough to be a contender, you have to have the ability to keep the bike loose coming off the corners, both front and rear. They only wheelie when you want them to, otherwise they just leave little black strips off the corners. When I lost that ability to keep the bike loose, it was the end of my career, but it took me several crashes to realize what had happened, i.e., I'd gotten too old to continue. Art
The Oro I took brand new out the crate didn't come with a mahogany & glass showcase... but then I'm not the king of Spain either. The bike I'm referring to is still here in Seattle and still (sadly) has 0 miles.
Keisan: (quote) "The Oro I took brand new out the crate didn't come with a mahogany & glass showcase... but then I'm not the king of Spain either. The bike I'm referring to is still here in Seattle and still (sadly) has 0 miles." Man, you got gypped! Go back and get your glass case! Just joking, The guys at Motoace in B'ham Alabama where my proletariat F4S came from told me they sold an Oro that came with the case. You don't think they were pulling my leg do you? I'm a pretty gullible guy, but still they seemd earnest with that. Keisan, take care of that Oro, its a national treasure. You should get a regular F4S to play around on, they are cheap and a load of fun! mdstrib
A bike shop pull your leg... never! The Oro I mentioned was for a friend/customer... still unridden in his living room. I've had a couple F4 stradas... they are a fun bike. Current fav ride is an '02 Ducati 998r (euro market streetbike). 139hp and 404lbs... not the best power to weight ratio but it seems fast enough. Have a Multistrada and some 250's for everyday stuff. Image Unavailable, Please Login
