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Discussion in 'Chicago' started by tifosi12, Mar 20, 2006.
Take a Boxer out and DRIVE IT!!, Ahhhhh, there's the point!!!
Yes, definitely extremely nice. I would LOVE to sometime!
But... it still doesn't have the newest Technological devices. Anti Lock Braking. Auto adjust Suspension. And all of the latest goodies, Etc...Found on the 360/430. Nor, those sexy side scoops and fender louvers like on the original 308...
Yes...true raw Power, which I love. I suppose it would be like the difference between driving a 1967 427 Cu.In. with 435 (Insurance Rated) Horsepower Corvette and a brand new 2006 version Z06 Corvette. Which they now say,is the fastest Corvette ever built.
One of the very first Muscle Car rides that I ever had was when I was 7 years old.(1967) One of the guys that worked for my Grandfather bought a Brand New 1967 Plymouth GTX with a 426 Hemi in it. That is one ride that I will never, ever (Gladly...) forget. To this day, I can STILL feel that Power, and the excitement of that car.
There ya go......now you've done it, you've hurt my feelings....AGAIN!
I HOPE YOU'RE PROUD OF YOURSELF!!!!
Ok, the front end of the 360/430 looks like one of them thar Por-sha automobiles. I don't know the model, but it has those goofy lookin' gigantic air intakes on the front corners.
Make the cars look like they should be roadkill vacuums!
And the high ass end; looks like a Vette on steroids with some extra Bling.
Cars today just aren't distinctive. It used to be that, from a mile away, you could tell a car's make, model and year.
That's practically impossible to do now.
I think most of you will have to agree.
I fully agree that most cars look alike and are therefore utterly boring.
But that's exactly why I think Ferrari is doing a great job with their designs (excluding the 612, which looks like a Japanese Sedan). Very distinctive. I think the same holds true for Lamborghini and a few others.
The front intakes on the 430 are not my favourite accent, but they do have a function and relate back to Ferrari's history (eg. Sharknose F1). About the only issue I have with modern Ferraris is the ground effect instead of a rear wing from a safety perspective: I find it risky to rely on ground effect when driving a car on open roads. Real wings can create a lot of downforce too withouth that risk. And they look cooler.
Except that the Boxer was introduced before the 308; therefore the correct observation would be that the 308 looks like a Boxer.
I think that shows the difference between the classic guys and the new buyers. My Dad's neighbor traded in his 360 for a 430 saying he liked the improvements. At the same time, he owned a P Turbo. He's a stock guy who just turned 40 and thus why he treated himself to the upgrade. One of the reps at LFSC (forgot his name, young guy, tall, parts dept, ) told me the same: he thought that they evolved the shape in all the right moves and thinks that the ZO6 is a steal of a car compared to what's offered in his own salesroom. Speaking of which, they have a Vette at the "Ferrari" dealer right now and it might be their most new car apart from a recent QP arrival or something.
Don't knock the Porsches too much. Our moderator can confirm their tremendous race history but apart from the false belief that such manufacturers always place their race experience into their road cars, the new 911 to be released will have Ferrari ( apart from super like V12 cars, ) destroying specs. Some quoting faster 0-60 times than the race inspired Carrera GT. Looks aside, one would have too much arrogance to ingnore the stats and price. Next year I will be happy to show/scare you in a test drive in one on NW Hgwy if you can get time off from entertaining all your lady friends. I think former FVM sales guru and nice guy Mike W said that the car most people had before their trades to Ferrari and Lambo were Porsche Turbos. That has to say something for the brand being a decent leaping board. A fellow Fchatter I have been communicating with talks more of his potential Pcar purchase than going after the Italian V12. If I can convince him to zip down for a visit, you got a free dinner to join us to what appears to be a gentleman to talk to.
Frank mentioned it before and I am standing back from it in awe... Despite the looks of all these new cars, their statistics are staggering, like another golden age, and it definitely seems like a rebirth of an older generation that didn't worry so much about economy and sense but rather mind boggling performance. I just wonder how long it will last and think that all the cars are quite impressive and I like the looks. Come on, trucks and SUVs with 500 HP and sub 5 sec 0-60 times? That is amazing and scary. They might not have the classic feel to the older generation, but the young is certainlly adapting to it and throwing down their deposits as I have seen in two cases. I'll try to convince you that some models, Porsche's elite in particular, should be given some props on their new offerings.
Sitting at my desk looking out at my vacuum cleaner right now. I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
While I'm happy to confirm their tremendous race history I do have too much arrogance and ignore the stats and price. Sorry pal, a Porsche is not in the same league as a Ferrari. There is nothing wrong with P cars, but they build so many of them that they have lost their exotic touch (except for the GT and some of the race cars).
Most Definitely Agree!
Yes, you used to be able to tell a cars year just by looking at it. (I am in the process of teaching my son that, now. With the '55-'70 Chevy's, early GTO's, Etc...) And, back in the old days, I could even tell you what car (most) was approaching....at Night....just by the headlight/marker light configuration!
Forget about it nowadays.....
Yeah, "back in the day". When you would see a truly "Exotic" car. It would reach out a GRAB YOU!!! IN YOUR FACE!!! LOOK AT ME!!!!! Exotic....Avante Garde....Italian design...... Nowadays....It's more like..."Yeah, nice." Thats about it.
Lamborghini is still somewhat Exotic looking, but very watered down. It's like they build a wax mock up of an Exotic. Then leave it in the sun for awhile, so that it melts alittle, then go "Voila! A masterpeice!"
Ferrari....Beautiful cars, no doubt. I love them. But as far as "Exotic Looking".... nothing that reaches out and GRABS ME. (Except for my 308.... )
And, even all of these 200+MPH, Million Dollar Exotic "Super Cars". Yeah, IMO very cool....But, if you look at them all together, they pretty much all look the same, too. (except for the Enzo. But now, even that is starting to look old....IMO....Not that I wouldn't do just about anything to have one, though....)
That is true....
Hey! Good to "see" you, Steve!!!
True. I've said this here before, but this is an oppotune time to bring it up again. I read an article in one of the Big Automobile Publications a few years back. And they said that same thing. "Porsche builds more cars in ONE Year than Ferrari has ever built. And THAT is a very special club".
And, hey, I do like Porsches. I've owned one and loved it! (A 944) I am mostly of German heritage. And I am fully aware of their technology and racing history. But, other than the 944 and 928, visually, they do absolutely nothing for me. Performance wise, yes, fine cars. Just not to my liking, though. ("Squashed Bug" ....as Andreas once said...
Yes, I agree with you David. It is simply just a difference in what the buyer likes.
When I used to have Corvettes, and hung around with 2 of the local Corvette clubs. I was really surprised that most of the older guys had brand new 'Vettes, as opposed to the old ones, which is what I would have expected. I thought it odd. I expected the old guys to all have '50's and '60's Cars. Some did. But most had the newest model out.
Skip is just OOOLLLDDD!!! He doesn't adapt to change very well, frequently responding with unexpected / unwarranted outbursts of of bitter aggression, unreasonable protestation, a general lack of taste and propriety.
But he's pretty much OK, no matter what everybody else says!
To all of those, who lament the passing of the days of old, when cars looked unique.
Yes, I do have to agree, there once was a time, when there was more individuality penned into each design, of cars being built. I also enjoyed this time in history.
But you have to let it go, we have moved into the age of aerodynamics and ground effects.
True, but as I said before, no street car should have ground effect. Way too dangerous. Go use your F430 with ground effect on LSD and I guarantee you, you won't even reach the end of the road before you're airborne and dead.
Remember that woman with the 360 in city traffic in Spain a year ago? Or the two FChatters with their 360 on the Ring at Schwedenkreuz? One bump is all it takes to destroy the suction effect and you're a plane out of control.
Waaahhhh!!!! But I can't, Bill!! I can't!!!!! I long for the days of yore, when cars had personalities....individuality....Todays cars are sterile, cookie cutter, simple, yet complicated pieces of computer operated machinery.....WITH NO SOULLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!! Aaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!......
Well at 190mph, on LSD, I am inclined to believe that the ground effects would be the least of the problems encountered.
You and I, as well as others, still appreciate the older designs. BUT, you can't compare the new designs to the old ones. Between DOT, EPA, CAFE and all the other constraints placed upon the mfgs, they just ain't gonna look like dat any mo.
Bottom line: You like the old design, buy the old car.
I still have this sick desire to find a '67 Dodge Polara 2dr HT (the only year with the taillights that looked like huge red pineapple wedges) put a 500+CI GrOUnDPoUNdER in it, lower it, tubbed out wells w/chopped axles, sort of a rumbling sleeper.
Like one I used to have, but eXxtReEMe!
Not sure I'm buying that argument. Look what Ford manages to do.
I wish Ferrari would do a continuation of the 250LM for instance. It is possible, just wait until you see Napolis' P6/7 unveiling at Pebble Beach in August: Enzo underneath with P4ish on top. Awesome car, that's all I can say.
Ford has sometimes included enough foreign components, in certain low gas mileage cars, so that they are officially classified as imports, and therefore not included in their CAFE calculations. As for low production models like the GT, that won't have much effect on CAFE and for the PR image that it represents, it is well worth the exercise and expense. Ford has a lot of cash in their coffers and can afford to "play" a bit.
As for cars like Jim's li'l baby, all things are possible, but I don't think his creation is subject to the same financial constraints as most other limited production cars.
We're not talking Honda Civics here, but cars in the price range of a quarter million (F430, 599 etc), where I'm sure it makes no difference to Ferrari SpA whether they put a contemporary body a la 430/Enzo/599 on it or a retro style body of a sixties car.
Don't get me wrong, I like the 430, the Enzo and the 599, but I don't see why Ferrari couldn't do a retro style car as well. If you need another example of where continuation was possible: VW Bug and BMW's Mini Cooper. Oh and btw: Porsche hasn't changed its design since the first 911 came out.
Give it up Billiam. Check and mate.
Hardly that far along yet, Andreas. It is/was much easier to build such voluptuous creations, when they are/were built by hand. Some of the extreme contours present is P3/4s and such would be nearly impossible to create in the numbers that are produced today. Consider that even in the high production 365 2+2, they only made approx. 200/year.
In modern terms, if the cars are built from molded components, it becomes much easier and faster than metal work. But how many Ferrari street cars were ever produced with composite bodies? That may be more prevalent in coming years and it does allow more stylistic freedom. So we'll see.
New Jag XK coupe in black..... damnnnnn I like that car!
Ford GT......How about that one? GT40 on the outside, all the way....modern underneath as it can possibly be, all the way.
That car was considered way ahead of it's time back then....and considered "Timeless" today. The body looks more modern than anything coming out now....and it's a 40+ year old design!
IMO, same thing with some of the Ferrari bodies....Timeless! And, still look modern today. Quite a few examples, (P4 definitely one of them) but the one that I am most familiar with is my 308. I Constantly get people....both Young and Old....asking me if it is a "New" Car. They just cannot believe it when I tell them that it is 25 years old....with a 30+ year old design!
It CAN be done! They don't all have to look like a melted blob!
I saw a show on Speed TV the other day that highlighted many of GM's
"Dream Cars", Prototypes. Etc... And one is of a new model called the Buick Lucerne. It is basically that same "Blob" shape as everything else coming out these days. But, it has very distinctive front lights and classic Buick grill....along with the "Portholes" on the sides of the Fenders. But, what I really liked, it had the side fenders, or Quarter panels, from the back of the front door on, that had that classic Buick "arch" in the Quarter Panels. Like what you would see on the '55-'57 models. IMO, it looked great.
Thats all that these Auto Manufacturers have to do. Just ADD a little something....SOME Kind of "STYLING Que". To make it "Different" than everything else thats out there. Something....ANYTHING!!!!!!
But, IMO, some really great Re-Pops that are out now and coming out:
Ford Mustang, and in all of it's Performance variants.
Pontiac GTO. Which I' ve read that it is going Bye Bye next year. Mostly because it DOESN"T look like a GTO...at all! And the people have spoken! It looks like a Grand Am. And so does that new G6. Pontiac is making everything look like that!
Dodge Charger. Doesn't resemble anything like a Charger at all.
Camaro....still out on that one. But from what I've seen so far, not so good....We'll have to just wait and see, I suppose.
I already mentioned the Ford GT. There are cars that are exceptions, as I said, "As for low production models like the GT, that won't have much effect on CAFE and for the PR image that it represents, it is well worth the exercise and expense. Ford has a lot of cash in their coffers and can afford to "play" a bit."
I and I know that I am not alone in this thought, like the current designs that Ferrari has. That doesn't mean that I like them more than the older more familiar ones, but in the older cars, there were dogs also, we just have a tendency to ignore them or say they look pretty good for the time.
Most cars look like sh*t, face it! We are just more nostalgic about some of them than others. Look at all of the people that are TOTALLY enamored with the looks of a 356A coupe or roadster. How about a Daimler SP250, a Gordon Keeble, Hyundai Tiburon, AMC Matador, just about any Citroen, Rambler Marlin, Pacer, Pinto, Infinty J30 and the list goes on and on. I almost forgot to mention just about any MB car that wasn't an SL or CL, during '60s and early '70s. To each their own! It takes all kinds my friend, otherwise it would get awfully boring around here
As you can see, I'm campaigning to gather more friends tonight