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Stainless Steel Brakelines Revisited

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by lou staller, Mar 8, 2004.

  1. lou staller

    lou staller Formula Junior

    Dec 21, 2002
    378
    Orange County Ca
    Full Name:
    Lou Staller
    After reading all the posts including the one from a few months ago about a poor seal and subsequent leaking, I still want to put s/s brakelines on my '84 308. But before I buy and install them I want to make sure the leak problem was just a case of a poor seat and not being tight enough. (I really don't want to use washers to seal the fittings.) Am I safe to assume that the problem is no longer a problem and I'll be OK with Goodridge lines? If so, where can I get them? Any input will be appreciated.
     
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  3. seschroeder

    seschroeder Formula Junior

    Apr 25, 2002
    251
    Alexandria, VA
    Full Name:
    Steve Schroeder
    I purchased Goodridge SS lines from Damon-Tweeks (UK). I had to use the cooper seal washers offed by Orme Brothers. While perhaps not the best solution they do seem to work.
     
  4. Dom

    Dom F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 5, 2002
    7,811
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Dom V.
    Hey Lou,

    When are you going to be installing them? Would you like an assistant? I'd love to help out and check out how it's done.

    Dom
     
  5. lou staller

    lou staller Formula Junior

    Dec 21, 2002
    378
    Orange County Ca
    Full Name:
    Lou Staller
    HI Dom, First I have to determine if Goodridge lines are the way to go. And also, where to get them. When I do, I'll let you know when I'm going to install them.
    Anyone know where I can get them here in the US? Thanks...
     
  6. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 19, 2002
    2,655
    Boulder, CO
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Mine with the copper flare gaskets / washers, well torqued, have been great. Great pedal feel. I do notice a difference, in that once the brake actually starts grabbing, there is a stronger, more fine and less sloppy correlation between how hard I push and the brake and how strongly the braking force acts on the car.

    It was a PITA, though, this job--tight clearances and all.

    I threw together a quick procedure for the removal of the original lines. It's just a first cut approximation--there are many ways to get them off. This is just the way I chose to do it. It's a good starting point in terms of tools, anyway.

    (Attached.)

    --Mike
     
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  8. Mike C

    Mike C F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 3, 2002
    6,074
    Southeast USA
    Full Name:
    Mike Charness
  9. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
    10,675
    Worldwide
    Full Name:
    Steven
    Goodridge lines were included fresh (only 2 months old) when the 1985 Euro 308GTS arrived here. Never felt what stock was like, yet the brakes (with EBC Green Stuff pads) seems very solid. Not quite "let the anchor out" instant stopping power, but DAMN good for a 308.

    Enjoy the Drive,

    Steven R. Rochlin
     
  10. Harta320

    Harta320 Karting

    Nov 6, 2003
    169
    Sarasota, FL
    Full Name:
    Bill Smith
    I just finished putting on some S.S. brakes on my 83 308 last weekend. Bought them from Orme Brothers for 137 and change. I agree with everyone that they seem to work great. I read all of the associated threads with the problems of the brake lines before installing and I was a little worried but everything seems to work just fine. They are not the easiest things to get on though. My brake lines use nuts instead of the clips to hold the brake lines to the frame and they can be very difficult to secure tightly in the front of the car just above the steering rack. It also looks to me like the flange angle from the car to the brake line was a little different as noted by someone else. The key seems to be that you really have to tighten the heck out of them so they will seat properly. So far no leaks but I will be keeping an eye on them for the next couple of months. I think the copper washers would help solve the flange angle problem and they would seal much easier. So far I have not had to go that route. A few people on the board do not like the copper washer idea but I can't seem to find a reason why they would not work just fine with no safety problems. Of coarse I am not an engineer but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. Good luck!
     
  11. Harta320

    Harta320 Karting

    Nov 6, 2003
    169
    Sarasota, FL
    Full Name:
    Bill Smith
    If you order the brake lines from Orme Brother ask them to include the copper washers as mine did not come with them. I went ahead and ordered them just incase I find that I need them. They are Goodridge brake lines by the way.
     
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  13. lou staller

    lou staller Formula Junior

    Dec 21, 2002
    378
    Orange County Ca
    Full Name:
    Lou Staller
    Thanks everyone for your input. I called Orme Bros today and spoke with Joel. He said before he ships the s/s hoses I have to call him back with the exact lengths of the factory rubber hoses I took off the car. The price he quoted was $137.00. Seems fair so I'll go ahead and get them. Thanks again.
     
  14. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 29, 2001
    17,072
    USA
    Full Name:
    Hugh G. Rection
    I had the Goodridge ss brake lines I ordered from Demon Tweeks UK finally installed by a local race shop. They fit fine, no leaks, no problems. Much better brake feel (firmer)...I like it!
     
  15. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    19,030
    socal
    "flange angle from the car to the brake line was a little different"


    This is a bad situation that should not be cured with copper washers. Find a new vendor with the right flare lines. The cure is to have the proper flare on both sides of the connection, that is how internal external flare is supposed to work. Brake lines run around 700to 1500psi don't screw them up. Here is one technical issue....fluid can froth under high pressure. When you have rough flow you have turbulance and frothing causing soft pedal under even casual trackday use. You cannot treat intended flare to flare connections with washers like a banjo fitting just because you can see that it works on the outside. "No leaks" is not enough. Also, for you DIY'ers make sure that after you do this job the hardlines are secure and do not vibrate. All vibration is supposed to be taken up by the ss hose not the hard line. Hardlines are brittle and will fatigue fracture when not properly supported or rub through on other structures. Be safe have fun!
     
  16. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    11,397
    MO
    Dave, did you use the copper washer?

    Also, are Fischer-Hydraulik stainless steel brake lines better then the Goodridge lines?
     
  17. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    11,397
    MO
    Also, where can you even buy Fischer lines from?
     
  18. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
    Global Moderator Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2003
    35,477
    The Sunshine State
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    Dave
  19. Steve King

    Steve King F1 Rookie

    Feb 15, 2001
    4,358
    NY
    I disagree here. I have a set of SS lines that I will install in a few weeks . I don't plan on using the copper washers but if I need to I would not consider it a problem. Installing the copper washer only takes up the variations in the mating surfaces and by deforming the washer it makes a metal to metal high pressure contact. Once deformed they will not leak. As for frothing this normally is a problem in a non-closed system. As for high temp. applications the copper will handle any track issues . Also considering that the washer are in a captive state they cannot extrude out of the fittings. My personal opinion is that they are not unsafe. If anything I have more of a concern with hose integrty . So considering I still have my orig. hoses on my 77 and have not seen discoloration in my brake fluid I feel the system is in fair shape. Also I have not found any rust on the steel lines so they should not be a problem. I agree with making sure that the lines are mounted correctly , you don,t want them flexing . Just my 2 c here.
     
  20. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
    2,722
    Little Rock
    Full Name:
    David Jones
    The lines I installed on my 77 308 were Goodridge G-Stop part #49001 from Tirerack.com...

    They fit fine, not a drop of leakage.

    Someone had said that they are no longer avail from tirerace though.
     
  21. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 29, 2001
    17,072
    USA
    Full Name:
    Hugh G. Rection
     
  22. dwil

    dwil Karting

    Nov 8, 2003
    109
    ozarks
    Full Name:
    Dave Wilson
    On the old forum there is mention of using the lines for a 911 which are
    readily available in ss for low $$(I have an unused set in my shop)
    Has anyone tried this?
     

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