StartedFromTheBottom - A Warning to Others

Thank you.

Marcel Massini

 

Great question and analysis.

However, consider the OP is complaining about not receiving originals. He has received copies of the papers Carlo sent.....and a limited CV. It is unlikely that these items are just fakes which makes the likelihood of a Peter existing to be far more probable. I can appreciate Carlo protecting an information and possibly a parts source from others. What I don't understand is why he just doesn't refund Jason's money and stop the trainwreck.

Further, Peter Reinisch did manage the Brun Motor Sport team and played a significant role in shaping racing in the mid 80s including a World Championship in 1986 for Porsche. Whether he came up with the idea of a Challenge Race Series in 1993 is up for grabs ......but in the absence of another claim.....I have no reason to doubt it. I will also add that lots of people claim credit for the ideas I have had in my lifetime. So it is possible that Peter made a claim to Carlo which is not 100% accurate when it comes to the Ferrari Challenge Series. After all .......Porsche guys make stuff up all the time.

In 10 minutes I found 8 addresses for Peter Reinisch in Germany. I would put him around 75 so this guy is not feeble by any means.

 

Used to date a girl years ago that was related to the family who owns Zeiss lens manufacturing in Germany. She told me her relatives said they were required to take English, Italian, French Language in school. Hum. Just took it for granted all these years that I was an exceptionally well rounded slacker.

 

You're right, I overlooked that Jason had posted Peter's full name as Peter Reinisch in the screenshots (not searchable).

Peter Reinisch gave an hour interview to a German motorsports podcast on Pitwalk this September 5, 2019:

https://www.pitwalk.de/pitcast/the-big-one/als-ob-ein-held-in-den-himmel-auffahrt

So Peter Reinisch is a real person, once team manager of Brun Motorsports, and still active in the motorsports community to some extent.

 

I think a big question is : on what authority did Carlo have to represent Peter?

Matt

 

It is starting to feel like Carlo thought he could sell his Peter's story and represented it one way and in reality it did not meet Jason's expectations. Perhaps Peter had second thoughts about making a public claim that he invented the Ferrari Challenge Series or the concept. It is a stretch to believe a life-long Porsche guy would come up with something for another manufacturer.

I'm not sure that Peter's story is worth anything without coorberation. My German isn't very good but Peter seems legit on the interview posted by Yin. He doesn't sound old and feeble....at all.

So what we are left with is a story....that might have had some value that Carlo sold to Jason. Jason doesn't want it and wants his money back. My guess is that Carlo is not going to ask Peter for the money back and Carlo is "too busy" to consider the business consequences.

There is an outside chance that Peter will send the originals through Carlo at some point but Jason probably has enough in hand to realize he was sold a sketchy story....not an exclusive.

 

I didn't know people paid for stuff like this

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

I think what Marcel is saying is along the lines of that there is no reliable independent third party to corroborate/support this claim; as far as I can tell there isn't any. What's interesting is that no one reports to have had a bad experience with this seller, at least until now.
Either way this thread has made the documents which our fellow forum member paid for more valuable... If they exist.

 

Including Jason the complaintant. He said he had bought “a number” of 348 Challenge related stuff from Carlo before this complaint.

And P_RSR claims to have done $10k in business with Carlo, all successfully.

However, Jason set his strangely specific expectations in the PM he emphasized with red vertical slashes on post 23 of this thread. He wanted 64 pages from Peter, a very specific request. Again, why Jason didn’t deal with Peter directly (or someone closer to Peter) is questionable, but Jason had already successfully bought items from Carlo before.

And yet Carlo really didn’t help his position with this snarky early reply:

I think that Jerry’s analysis above is spot on. These are both difficult people.

Matt

 

It seems to me from the article in Pitwalk (I used Google to translate it from the link provided by Yin) that Peter Reinisch has a reasonably prominent name in the sport in Germany - a name that he would not wish to be tarnished by being implicated in this dispute, which he may not even be aware of. Surely the publishers of Pitwalk would have his contact details? They may not be willing to give them to Jason directly, for data protection reasons, but I would have thought the publishers could pass on a message if the reason could be explained to them with reference perhaps to this thread. My experience of doing business in Germany over many years, is that most people have a grasp of simple English particularly those like Herr Reinisch who would be, I imagine, of more than average intelligence and experience. Likewise, people of his generation and position in society have a greater sense of correctness than most - I think any implication of wrong-doing would not sit well with him.

Marco

 

Jason

Check your PM's (conversations).

Marcel Massini

 

dear sirs :

i have in my possession a box of early ferrari 355 challenge material. many early pics, factory communique, blue prints, invoices, etc

if interested, please wire $1,500 to my account

SWIFT # CITINGLATRD

Bank Nigeria

Acct # 358-789-5589

for prompt delivery

 

I've heard about these guys! These Nigerians always get hold of the coolest stuff! I'm stuck at work today, but I'm hoping nobody beats me to this.

(P.S. I also have some easy money coming in soon, because I was offered a huge sum of money to help another Nigerian move some money around. Thinking about another Ferrari when that comes in!)

Kevin

 

My money is on Marcel......he has a demonstrated knowledge of everything related to Ferrari's history.

 

Wow, all this for 200 euros? That's all I needed to hear. I think at this point its not the money, but principle. I spent that at breakfast yesterday. @StartedFromTheBottom , just give him the 200 euros and be done with it. That's what I would have done before this blew up.

Something tells me you won't now as damage is done.

Penny wise and pound foolish comes to mind.

 

Ah I see, sorry for my error. Thanks for the clarification.

 

Perhaps the solution then presents itself in clear view. You paid 1,300, split the cost and move on 650. I'm sure nobody will be happy, sometimes that's how you know it's the only solution.

 

StartedFromTheBottom said: ↑
Thanks for the kind words Jason but this is long gone to a happy owner!


This has been nagging at me for a while......I wonder if it is possible he was paid by a couple of people around the same time like the Opus thread and gave the material to a higher bidder. By his own words he says the documents are "long gone to a happy owner". Then the delays, obfuscation, blaming Jason, not revealing Peter's contact info all fit together. If contacted, Peter would say: "I sent all those documents to Carlo". In the Opus thread the middle man went to great lengths to delay and avoid paying a refund for a much greater sum because he didn't have the product and had spent the money.

Perhaps it was a snarky comment or it was the truth. If it was the truth.....Peter got Jason's money and Carlo got someone else to pay him directly. Either way......the next stop on the train is to run down Peter. For a $1,000 and because I don't like people who don't keep their business promises I would find him and get the answer.

 

That quote refers to another item. Jason was spamming his complaint across a few of Carlos threads for other items for sale. Carlos responded to Jason that particular item (on the ad for that item) had already sold, he wasn't talking about the Challenge documents.

As far as I could tell, the Challenge documents offered to Jason were never publicly advertised here, otherwise, I would have consolidated the complaint spam onto that thread. Because there was no such thread, I moved all of the irrelevant complaints (irrelevant in so far as to the threads they were posted on) to this thread.

 

Thanks.....we will see what happens next......I just don't understand people like this.

 

Hi Jason, sorry for my confusion, I thought you said you received non-original facsimiles? Thanks and look forward to the clarification.
Cheers