Check out Corbani's post #050911. He researched this very problem.
The 74 US GTS has a red warning light labeled Generator on the left side of the steering column. Interestingly, on this morning's drive, it did not come on at all -- I didn't mean to suggest it's temperature driven, only that until the car is warm and idles smoothly without any throttle, it flickers. This I assume is because the engine takes about 3-5 minutes to really idle without any stuttering. I'm no EE, so I don't know why a near-stall lights it up, but pretty much every car I've ever owned does that. Could be that what all those cars have in common is the idiot -- me -- who doesn't know jack about it. (You see - those idiot lights are well-named). I'm thinking it's the battery, maybe getting run down by the clock too. New battery next weekend. Anybody care to tell me how to get the clock out? I have no idea how to open the dash, and don't want to start unscrewing stuff at random!
Keith- Slightly off topic, but I noticed the phrase "...I have my Dino up on a two-post lift". I am anxiously awaiting installation of my two poster (should be this Fri) - where EXACTLY are the safe lift points in the FRONT, to keep from buckling the rocker panels? Any chance you could post a picture showing this? Many thanks in advance.
+1 Corbani goes to great lengths to expose the problem area of dirty contacts and how to fix them - don't go changing expensive parts before you are sure the connections are good. As a side note, 1) You need a battery tender that monitors your battery and only charges it when the voltage starts to drop Here is a good one for under $10 that I use http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42292 2) Replace the dinoplex with a modern, high performance ignition system. I have an MSD 6 in my Euro Dino and a Permatune AEC-103 Marelli replacement in my USA Dino (direct plug and go replacement) http://www.permatune.com/P-Ferrari.html
There have been a few recent discussions on starter motor problems and replacement options. I have a few questions which, after searching previous threads, are probably most suited to this thread. I have an original starter with issues. Rather than immediately going for a modern replacement I would like to first see if I can solve the problem using standard parts. I have replaced the battery and reconditioned the alternator, including cleaning the commutator and new brushes. The starter dog has been greased appropriately. I have also replaced the solenoid with new. There is no visual indication of a fault or wear on the starter. Contacts at battery terminal and starter are clean and good. Flywheel teeth show no obvious wear. I have not replaced the starter dog unit, it looks fine. The symptoms: Not unlike those mentioned in this thread. Specifically: ~25% of the time the starter works fine. ~75% of the time the starter sounds like it spins without actually engaging the fly wheel. Sounds like a fast free spinning noise with no resistance. Of these 75% failures about 50% of the time further attempts with the key are successful; the other 50% requires me to rock the car in gear to apparently reset the starter dog. The rocking could just be a fluke, it is not obvious to me that the starter dog has stuck on the flywheel. The problem is worse when the engine is hot, although I am sure this is simply because the engine is harder to start promptly and requires more starter turns. When the starter does turn the flywheel, it always does so without a problem, i.e. it does not get ejected until I stop the key or the engine fires. Solutions? Some threads point towards the starter switch. Has anyone had precisely the same symptoms and solved them by replacing this switch? I note Superformance has a replacement at £96.95 and Dinoparts at Euros52.40. The part in the photos looks identical. Does anyone know if these are differently manufactured, any views on which is best? Any other suggestions, apart from a high torque modern alternative, which I may end up fitting? Kevin
Dave - mine does the same thing. It is not the switch. I have bypassed the ignition switch and I have a push button. Not the cause. Your problem, as is mine, is in what is referred to as the "Bendix" after the manufacturer who produced most of these early on. It is referred to as Bendix as Kleenex refers to tissue. When the solenoid engages and spins the starter, the Bendix throws towards the flywheel the spinning gear. If the gear fails to engage the flywheel ring gear, it will stay short of the gear and spin at high RPM. This is what you hear. The culprit is in the washers, spacers, and mechanism of the Bendix. Or it may be in the distance that the starter sits from the ring gear, which is adjusted with washers on the starter side of the bolts holding the starter. It takes new parts to get this right, and my starter has been out 3 times without rebuilding success. I am about to replace it with a modern gear-reduction starter. If you want to fix yours, remove the starter and send it to a competent rebuilder. Perhaps they can stumble upon a fix. The important point is that it is not the ignition switch. When it works (25% of the time), loaded and drawing a great deal of current, it works fine. The ignition switch only pulls the solenoid current. Good luck. Jim S.
After all the pain, my problem turned out to be the voltage regulator. Never replaced starter or any other part, or even battery. Replacing the vr solved starting problem completely for me. You can go really cheap wth a GM part, or expensive with a replica of OEM.
Jim, glad to see I am not the only one to suffer this specific problem. I have not noticed this on other Dinos at shows or received similar comments from owners. The cause you describe fits with symptom and indeed logic says it is not the ignition switch. Attached are a few photos I took some time ago on the first disassembly. When the parts are in the hand it is easy to feel by sliding the "Bendix" what the issue could be. Once it is all re-installed and the problem re-occurs my memory is too diluted to get to grips with the issue. I assume the Bendix gear slides outwards from the starter rather than pulls back, in order to turn the fly wheel? The fact that it spins freely on failure suggests it does not even touch the edges of the flywheel teeth. I don't think i have heard a clash, perhaps it just bounces off. Superformance sell a replacement Bendix gear assembly. However, its £100! has anyone tried the replacement? Kevin Image Unavailable, Please Login
Mrony, thanks for the suggestion. Were your starter problems similar to those I described? I am not entirely familiar on how the voltage regulator affects the starter circuit. I will check the wiring diagram. Kevin
Jim, thought i had exhausted the search on Dino starter issus, but just found your 2005 thread and replies in: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59264&highlight=starter+motor looks like you have spent quite a bit of time to sort the problem without too much success. I really don't want to have to remove the bell housing to help identify what is happening, particulalry if you have struggled even with such access. Trial and error with spacers will be back breaking work leaning over the boot. Sods law says that it will appear solved, only then to fail after I get all the manifold and exhaust back on. A modern replacement is beginning to look attractive. Please let us know how you get on with yours. Kevin
Davie - it's always fun to go back and read what one said 4 years ago. Quite a good discussion and great input from many. Tom C. has been quite helpful, and has provided me with a modern gear-reduction starter that I have to muster the energy to put in. On my to-do list - next in line. I ask that Tom C. chime in, he is the expert on modern starters and has considerable experience. Jim S.
MRONY : It would be most helpful to us if you gave specific information regarding your starting problem. Without that even a simple solution may be missed. First of all do not use the expression "it won't start" when you mean that the engine will not turn over. Something as simple as a loose battery connection can result in erratic starter motor function. So can grounding. In any case, I would like to know specific details. What has been your specific history of poor starting. For now at least I see no reason to switch to any non-original starter ....... and not for the sake of originality. Best wishes, David 00474
Hi Mike- As Jim said I have had a few of these gear reduction starters - 2 in my dinos & several on many British cars that I have had. They are light weight, easy to install and lots cheaper. They are also very reliable. In the Dino you can get the gear reduction starter in and out without removing or pulling back the rear header. Obviously to remove the original starter you have to pull the rear header (maybe pull it back off the studs). I may have shown you mine when you were over a while back. I replaced my ignition switch (Bavarian Auto in Maine- from a 2002 and about $100 bucks) and easy to do and I put in a gear reduction starter from Gustafson Machine shop (Mass). It was a great combo and zero problems since. After our show 10/18 (you better come) we can fix it over a saturday. Please let me know if I can help.
