Hi all, Doesn't it figure? I drove up to Dallas for the FCA regional meet this past weekend. My car ran great but wouldn't start when I stopped for gas. Neither the starter nor solenoid "click" or make any noise when I hit the key. The dash lights don't dim. It push started just fine. I do have power out from the ignition switch. That's all the farther I've gotten with the diagnosis. So if I find it is indeed the starter which ones are you buying?
I bought mine from Dave Austin for $385 after a bit of haggling. Works great, really happy. Details are: Classic Car Performance, Inc. 142 Wagmans Ridge Rd Saratoga Springs, NY 12866 518-290-0390 Cell (call anytime) 516-417-8391 Fax [email protected]
In my opinion the gear reduction starters for the early 12's are the only way to go. The starter used was an example of pre Victorian electrical technology. If you car is an automatic it goes through a relay in the passenger footwell on the way to the starter. If it is a 5 speed it still goes through an empty relay block with a jumper installed to replace the relay.
Gotta love the manual cars! A quick push (if you can--the 400 is HEAVY as hell!) and you're off. I hear the gear reduction starters are the way to go--however, I just LOVE the sound of the factory starter. It's so slow--it just sounds great. That being said, when mine failed, it was just the solenoid. Take the starter off and take it to an alternator/starter rebuild shop. They should be able to figure out what's wrong and fix it--might even be cheap. Mine cost $80 to fix and I got it back 4 hours later. This is all assuming that everything else is in order (ignition switch, wiring, jumpers, etc)
Just what I was going to say. It helps if you park facing downhill! Good luck finding the solution Dave. Was there any indication that the starter wasn't engaging, making noises or other unusual effects before this happened or was it perfect in the morning and then nothing happening the next start? With any luck, it is a loose ground or other simple fix as I hear that the tight location of the starter makes it a bear to replace.
Zero warning which makes me suspect it is something other than the starter. I started it, drove 150 miles, shut it off, got gas, hit the key,......and nothing. No click, no big power draw, nothing. I really suspect a connection or something else. I'll know as soon as I get it in the air and put a test light on it.
You're right. It is. The gear reduction starters make a massive difference when cranking the car, maybe it's less of an issue with injected cars but carbs can be temperamental when the car isn't used regularly so I'd take more torque, less weight and less current drain any day thank you. I'll keep the original starter "just in case" but if you go to the trouble of removing a duff starter I know what I'd recommend.
The " no big power draw" is a huge indication that there is a loose connection somewhere. Even a trashed starter would probably draw (a lot of) current if it was connected.
Dave Long time since you've posted I believe; first problem in a while. I had similar problem after a similar drive time. Stopped at a winery (what else) and did some tasting and it would not start and similarly other electrics were okay. Had to get the flat bed to take her home; no pushing this auto! After unloading the car we started pushing it to the garage and I stopped and jumped in and it started right up! All I had to do was redo the solenoid and main power wires on the back of the starter and no problems since. I also checked the ground and mine is spotless clean; it is actually a galvanized patch on my car. So give that easy check first before getting too carried away. Ken
Hiya Ken. Yeah, all is well. Haven't been driving any of my toys much in the past year. Lost my dad, sold part of my business, been working at the ranch, just life getting in the way you know how it goes. Thanks for the advice all. I'm going to start checking her out later this week if I get a chance before I head to Austin for the F1 race.
Dave,please accept condolances for the loss of your father. Several years back, I bought the British high output starter, the one sold out of the Boston area. It fit perfectly with absolutely no modifications of any kind.. My old bolts fit. These things are soooo strong and fast, that they draw about as much juice as a size D flashlight battery. Worth every dollar($$00-500 USD). BTW, for those of you who haven't tasted Dave's wines, you have truly misses one one life's true pleasures. Jq.
Sorry to hear about your dad, Dave. The British starter is fantastic and will spin up that V12 instantly without draining the battery. Aidan
Condolences to you & yours for the passing of your dad, which can take time to get over Enjoy the F1 race! Maybe that'll be the kick in the pants that you need to renew your interests!
I finally had a chance to start working on this problem this morning. Myself, John, and others all suspected the starter wasn't the problem when I wasn't getting a big power draw when hitting the key. So I thought I'd start with the obvious, or accessible, stuff first. My plan was: 1) Double check that I was getting power out from the ignition switch when the key was turned to "start". 2) Check to see if there was power to the solenoid and then the starter when the key was "started". 3) Check the fuse/relay panel for any obvious signs of trouble. 4) Punt. Ok, sounded logical and like a good plan to me. The results? 1) Yep. Hooked a test light up and got a nice bright light when I hit the key. (Ignition switch is in good shape.) 2) By myself today and didn't have anyone handy to hit the key while I touched a test light to the solenoid. I figured I could make a test light with a VERY long lead and do it by myself but just wasn't in the mood yet so I skipped to step #3. (Status of starter/solenoid unknown) 3) Didn't see anything amiss with the fuse/relay panel but that doesn't mean anything. My car is a stick so I don't have the relay the arrow is pointing to, there is a jumper in place. I wiggled it a bit. Now if I'd been smart I would have tried to start it after the jumper wiggle, but alas apparently I'm not because I didn't. I did notice that when I hit the key I could hear the start valve relay "click" and felt a vibration. "Hmmmmm." So I flipped my mini Maglite around and gave them both a light "tap", reached over and hit the key.............its always been a good starting car. (Problem solved) So after reading the 400i "Istruzioni Per Le Riparazioni" I bought years ago the moral to the story is if the fuel relays aren't working the starter won't engage. (unless of course the problem was actually the auto trans jumper) Thanks for the help all...........Back on the road..... Image Unavailable, Please Login
Fantastic ! A job on a 400 which: a) didn't cost anything to fix b) didn't take 27 hours of frustration for 10 people c) didn't remove too much skin or DNA d) didn't leave the car stranded or off the road for months e) didn't require copious amounts of alcohol (except in celebration!) Happy days !!!
Amazing isn't it? I must be living right, or more likely God is giving me some mercy. Either way in a few hours your "e" suggestion looks like the way to go (fixed it for you)
Yeah not so fast Skippy! I just pulled the 2 relays and it still cranked. Looks like it was the jumper in the upper left after all.
I was going to say that I would have been amazed if BOTH fuel pump relay contacts went wonky at the exact same time, so that didn't seem convincing to me. Also, before I replaced the fuse and relay panel, I had an occasional problem with loose contacts on one of the fuel pump relays and it would cause the car to run on six cylinders once in a while that took a "wiggle" of the relay to reconnect properly. I never had both go at the same time so can't comment on whether that would cause the starter not to engage. You probably are on the right track with that jumper connection. All is takes is one loose contact and those little electrical charges don't flow!
Dave, very sorry to hear about your dad. PS, I have had great results from my modern gear reduction starter.
