Starting a 328 at 6,000' or at Sea Level on the Same Day

I have a unique problem because of where I live. I live in the mountains above Palm Desert/Palm Springs. I can be at 15 to 20 degrees in the morning at home and at 70 degrees within 35 minutes as I drive down to the desert. (When you see Tiger putting at Big Horn, I live in the mountains in the background) Since I don't want to grind my starter more than necessary, What to drivers in this region do for a cold or hot start?..... at Denver for example?....winter and summer. Floor it?....turn the key and grind? Half throttle....pump the throttle...Cars seem to do better with certain procedures at different temps and altitudes. Do you have a starting procedure at altitude and extreme cold that is different from other Ferrari drivers? I suppose I need to ask Phoenix drivers how they start their cars at 110 degree because I face that here too.. Thanks. I hope I haven't asked a completely stupid question. Paul PS, I have a 1987 328.

 

Heated garage?

The car (fluids) is warm when you start out, drive it around, and when you tuck it in at night, it will be ready to go next time

 

When I lived in Colorado (and it was close to 100 degrees and 6500 feet ASL) it would start right up warm or cold. Same here in Anchorage (sea level, sometimes in the 30s). I have never noticed a difference in starting the car, as far as a different technique. I guess I am the opposite of you: sea level cold or altitude hot. Just make sure it warms up regardless of the climate. Turn the key, dont touch the throttle for me.

However, it does run better at sea level in cool air.

 

FChatter Mike328 has been very helpful to me in the past, he had a 308 here in Denver and upgraded a while back to a 328. MIKE??? YOU HERE???? I assume he'll have some good input.

James in Denver

 

Hi Paul (hey James!),

Lots of F-cars up here in Denver where the drivin' is good! As a general rule, fuel injected Ferraris seem to have no problem starting or running at the higher altitude or even temperature differential. Now, I've seen some weirdness in my 328 at ridiculous altitudes (10,000 feet - Leadville, CO) but overall the altitude has not had any effect on my starting or running techniques. Same goes for temperature--CO has beautiful, sunny days in the middle of winter--so 30, 40 degree rides in January are not unheard of. Again, the starting experience is always similar. (Make sure your battery is strong, of course! There's a big difference in starting at 10 volts vs. 12 volts...)

Certainly when starting, I never even touch the throttle.

Carbureted cars are different story. With my old carbed 308, you could significantly alter the "experience" of starting the car based on what you did with the throttle--how many pumps before hand, how far to hold it down when starting.

My feeling is, and I think the general consensus would be, that you should not be experiencing problems in starting running your car at reasonable altitudes and temperatures, not in a fuel injected car anyway. Now, "hot start" issues I think are common; sometimes, when the car is hot and I go to restart it, it can take just a few seconds longer to get fired up.

If you continue to have a lot of trouble starting, there may be some issue somewhere...

 

Hi. I appreciate your answer...I'm on the East Coast of Canada for a few weeks. I did put a knife type battery disconnect on the negative side of the battery like I did on my old MG/912. Both seemed to lead volts. It fit without touching the battery cover. Who cares if I lose the radio presets....I like the exhaust better. Thank you for your feedback. When I'm home I'll try it all out. Paul

 

I have driven several Fcars, including a 328, to the summit of Mt Evans ( 14,200). Just turn the key and go no matter where you are. Not much power up there of course.

Dave

 

Contrary to almost all advice I've received, my 328 cold starts best at 6,000' with gently opening the throttle 1/2 way, hit the key....after just a few cranks it burbles to life and settles into a 1200 rpm idle. Oddly it likes the same thing at Sea Level when it is warm or hot. When I bought the car and had it PPI ed at Norwood Performance in Dallas, I was told that every car seems to settle into it's own starting routine....the rub for the new owner is to find that routine while you are scared to death you will break something and have a repair bill bigger than the GNP of Latvia. Many thanks F-Chatters> Paul

 

FYI, the 328 already has a battery cut-off. Open the hood and look behind the driver's headlight for the red gizmo. That's a pull-off connection that disconnects the power.

 

Fuel injected cars should automatically compensate for changes in altitude. My car(308qv) came from Houston before I had it (sea level) I live in the Denver area (5280ft) and 2 weeks ago I was on the road to Squaw Pass, elev 11,000ft, I had no problems just turned the key and she fired right up. (at 11000 ft, there was snow on the side of the road, so very cold too)

 

Tillman and others....thanks for all of your feedback. After websites that flame each other for the fun of it, it is great to see the " experienced " F-People inform the new people of what they know...Old 73231 does have its oddities...."give me half throttle no matter what".... hey, when I married my second wife, I accepted the way she was when/where we said "I do"...could it be our wonderful car/dreams are the same...when you are a Ferrari "Virgin", you do worry...what if I screw up...what a great web site and great people. I just keep printing all the valuable stuff people share. I am NEVER dumber after I have scanned what people have added.... Thank you...Paul

 

Paul -- there are some things that you might try IMO if your symptom is opening the throttle 1/2 way helps for both cold and warm restarts:

1. Check the condition of the 7.5A "cold start electro-valve" fuse (fuse #9 on page 94 of the 396/85 OM) -- this not only controls the cold start valve (as it is labeled), it is also involved in running the fuel pump during starter motor cranking if the airflow metering plate doesn't deflect. When you open the throttle plate during starter motor cranking, you "help" the engine deflect the airflow metering plate, which then runs the fuel pump via a different electrical path.

2. If that fuse is OK, try swapping in a different ...101 relay into the "fuel injection delivery pump starting relay" position (relay S on page 94 of the 396/85 OM) -- for this test just use one of the other ...101 relays from the headlight function. Same sort of thing here -- if the airflow metering plate is not deflected during starter motor cranking, the current to close the fuel pump relay (and run the fuel pump) takes one path inside this relay; however, if the airflow plate is deflected (again aided by opening the throttle plate), the current to close the fuel pump relay flows thru a different path inside this relay.

3. Another test along these lines would be to unplug the blue safety switch at the airflow metering plate. With this unplugged, when you turn the key "on" you should hear the fuel pump running. Then go to the "start" position and see if the engine will fire without opening the throttle.

Just some suggestions (that don't get you greasy )...

 

I'll settle in this weekend on Sat. AM and do as you suggested..... today I drove old 73231 down for a tank of 91 octane...21 miles of great curves on CA HWY 74 to Hemet. Trust me...now I know I did a great thing for ME in getting the 328. Isn't it great to be a kid again and very happy with what you bought....kind of like my '59 Sears 125 Vespa I bought in 1961. Just thrilled to have it and I could care less if others have better vehicles!!!!. Dahh... 91 tr...what does IMO mean? Thank you Paul

 

IMO = in my opinion

Good hunting -- I know that you must have a problem somewhere because all of the K-Jet and KE-Jet equipped F models should start (cold or warm) without depressing the acc. pedal (as the OMs state). Here's a jpeg of the safety switch for reference:
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Hi...I drove the car down to the desert last night since the big fire in Riverside County is near us and 243 was closed... Anyway the car started everywhere just fine....1/2 throttle and away it goes in one or two seconds of cranking. If a person just lived with this...is there a bigger problem waiting?....say for example I do all of the ez fixes and it still is a problem....would I hurt the car by continuing starting it "wrong"? It runs great at all times otherwise. Today I tried starting it with no throttle...no go after 3, 10 second grinds. Then even at 1/2 throttle it was a hard putt....putt... type start. Just now,... 1/2 throttle and it fires quickly. Thanks again...I'm learning alot from F-chat. Paul

 

As you already know, it's not the end of the world, and you've got a quasi-reasonable work-around, but it isn't something that I'd put down as a positive on a PPI.

I guess it would depend on how long you are cumulatively cranking and how "hard" the start event is -- does the RPM overshoot some?

Like the others have reported, my KE-Jet just starts beautifully (and near instantly) warm or cold (even in a 40 deg garage) so sort of a shame that your giving up one of the good points of the K/KE system -- especially, if all it takes is checking/replacing a fuse

 

Thanks again...I'm picking up an assortment of fuses 7.5, 10,15,20,25...I figure two of each....and some fine grit paper to clean the contact points too. I've been busy so the 328 is garage bound...nice assortment of cat footprints...indicate need to wash, check your suggestions for non-dirty solutions, fiddle with door striker plate alignment, use an screw extractor on the sheered off bolt on the drivers side seat back... and a drive....followed by covering it ASAP. When I start it at half throttle...it gets to 2500 rpm..then I have to keep some throttle for 15 seconds or so...then it settles into its 1000 to 1100 idle. Will let you know how it turns out. Again thankyou PB