Starting to see a lot more cars on the market

Yep and agreed
In a tunnel it’s a full old school F1 goose bump experience


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I don't need to. An 812 holds next to no appeal to me. I don't like the styling. I don't like the lack of a manual transmission. Whoopdiedo you can mash the go pedal and a computer will modulate the car to keep you in a straight line. I would much rather be in something older and slower that has character. That is my opinion, it is obviously not yours and that is fine. Still going to hold the viewpoint that 450hp is more than enough for a street car. No abs. No traction control. No computer to shift for you. Your 800hp soul-less wonder holds no sway for me.

 

Something like this fits the bill

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1985-ferrari-308-gtb-qv-4/#comments

 

I'm with you on the styling...

Buy an 812... Is not souless. You must not have driven one.


Also... Nissan pick up from 1994 has a manual transmission... Does it have a soul because it has three pedals?

I wouldn't want a manual in an 812. It would be terrible.

 

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Find a 550/575 or even a 456... for the money you would save on an 812, you can find a pristine example (even a manual 575 if you are patient) and have the visceral experience driving. Plenty of power, amazing and iconic good looks. Straightforward and easy to service, minimal computer interaction. Plus likely on the upside of the depreciation curve

 

There are quite a few differences between car and airplane engines. One has to do with the type of oil. Because of the leaded fuel and fairly loose piston to cylinder wall clearances (especially when cold) airplane oil is different than car oil and I don’t think the regular airplane oil is as good as preventing corrosion. Also especially on the Lycomings the cam is at the top of the engine case where moisture collects and even under perfect conditions the cam is barely lubricated enough. I think also a lot of airplanes sit outside or in unheated drafty hangars which also hurts.

 

I'm not sure if this is a data point or not, but for the first time ever Ferrari of Austin has sent an me (included me) on an email advertising last call for 296 allocations. It struck me as odd, because I've never seen something like this from Ferrari. Other makes yes, but I've always thought Ferrari had so many buyers that they never had to solicit buyers and let them know there's still time to buy one.

 

Part of the problem is the dealer's only have the Roma and 296 to offer...they are hurting from lack of ability to order (only 2 models!) so they want to gather in as many as they can, yes, it is peculiar they are sending such an email, but I think that has something to do with it. Other than the upcoming FUV, there is nothing immediately obvious on the radar for new models you can actually order and it may remain that way until late 2023 or early 2024...scary time to be a Ferrari dealer, hard to earn sales revenue when there is nothing to sell that's why they are resorting to buying substantial pre-owned for their inventory (not too many are cars are being consigned)...plus, for USA, 296 first deliveries likely are 1+ year out, hopefully sooner...but unlikely as production is slow as they work out the problems that you haven't heard of...

 

I think the Roma spider will be presented in Q1 2023 with some first possible deliveries in late 2023.

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Good news!
Being a non-hybrid, deliveries should start 6-8 months after reveal

 

More cowbell is always welcome. That little knob on the wheel - turn it all the way to the right and hold it for a second. Bring spare set of shorts.

 

State of the market report July 2022. While I don't agree with everything said, it's one of the best analysis on where things are and where they may go.

https://karenable.com/supercar-market-insights-analysis-july-2022/

 

He consistently accomplishes saying very little.

 

Maybe I expect Monterey to be tame and the canary in the coal mine

BaT down from craziness. Cars sitting waiting for buyers now at stable/foppish prices.
959 no sale against just under 2m.




Corrected for inflation prices are down.

Who’s paying asking now ?


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It took me months to find the right 360. I feel the newer cars are heavily inflated based on the new car shortage and dealers asking at or above MSRP. I saw many posts on this forum of 360’s and 430’s going for extremely low prices in the 2010 to early 2017 years. So many older Ferrari’s pricing is based on miles, condition and maintenance records. I don’t see prices of older Ferrari’s falling back that low again… Many will wish it to happen but good luck… Manufacturer’s I bet start to continue this Tesla type business model where you literally have no inventory and you walk in and simply just order a car at MSRP and wait. Even if anyone sold now at the peak, what else will you do with the new capital? You might have made an extra 15k to 20k more than previous years but you will end up either getting tired of waiting for the supposed “ correction “ or just go buy a supposedly over priced used car. With some of use paying supposedly higher it will trickle down the years when we sell later.

 

You are looking at the market form an old timer perspective. You have zero relation to the new generation. I'm in the trenches..I like what I like..but I'm not blind. These old cars..are going to be just that..old cars. Nobody with in 10 years is gonna want anything to do with them. Call me what you want..but it is what it is..

 

Then why do the Testarossa and 355 still fetch good money? I am in the automotive industry and in high management. The 360 was the start of the modern era and has lower production numbers than the Testarossa, 355 and F430. To me, the model is being overlooked due maintenance. Most 90’s babies dreamed of this model and will come to income levels to afford them soon. The electric era is coming and these models will prevail. The models made from the 360 to 488 model will all be sought after when Ferrari goes electric.

 

I disagree..parts, techs who are willing to work on them are drying up. It's not the object..it's the support. It's drying up. Cost of ownership and who is gonna fix it are massive issues you are over looking.

 

What if Ferrari steps in and expands it's vintage service program? They already have one.

https://www.ferrarifl.com/service/vintage-ferrari-service/

 

Interesting balance.


ENZO and Luca era Ferraris were not used like they are now. So many of the collector cars are still valuable and Will escalate still. Hard to know really.

For example I live the 330 GTC/S and 365 series. How many 40 years old do ? The whales GTOs and old TDF and TR Will always be valuable and scarce. But some of the driven 360s will be harder to keep and Will fall away. Like the 308s are starting to do. Hard to know but in 20 years who knows.

Some of us have about 20 years left of collecting and diving. By Then I’ll be looking for an old Mechanic to work on my sf90.

And in Europe what happens when people
Outlaw ICE vehicles except Special Use? It’s starting with increased fees and ULEV zones etc.

 

Even Ferrari is still at the mercy of suppliers. Bosch has zero interest in tooling up for the old CIS cars for example...it's starting to become a rather large problem.

 

My take — these cars are relatively dead simple and most every procedure on these cars has been DIYd and documented - meaning almost any mechanic should be able to learn and do the work down the road. All factory diagnostic tools have been reverse engineered and clones made (Leonardo, Launch, etc). I’d be more worried about the more modern cars here.

Likewise any electronic parts someone eventually finds a suitable replacement. I’m not sure if there’s anything from the Bosch catalog we can’t adapt something.

I’d be more worried about things like control arms etc becoming NLA but even then people are finding ways of reproducing. Someone just designed and got machined the NLA upper control arms for the 4200. When there’s a desire and need someone will always find a way.

I think the only thing that kills them is if we reach a point where it no longer is LEGAL to own/run them.

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Starting to look to replace my wife’s 2014 Turbo S coupe. Thinking possible to get a new one realizing I will be paying over sticker but maybe closer to sticker now. Dealer sent me the spec of incoming one. It sold for $80k over before I had the chance to lay eyes on it. Dealer still has little to no inventory.


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Bingo!
My 612 has been sitting at the Ferrari dealer while they try to source an oil line to the gearbox. Ferrari says they don't stock any. It looks like they are going to have to have one manufactured.