Stay away from Gated 599 GTB.... walk away...

BINGO. And, he added it doesn't work in his particular environment where he is forced to endure a lot of hills.

The fact that the OP stated he loves his TR shows he is not of the F1 fan boys. He likes what he likes and doesn't like what he doesn't like. He doesn't like a gated 599.

 

everyone wanting the latest technology is ... insulting? wow

where did i write that those who ordered an F1 in the 599 don't know a good car vs. a bad one, or "don't know diddly about how to order a car"?

Ferrari doesn't make manual transmission cars anymore, because the latest technology is to be found in F1 transmissions ... not because Ferrari doesn't know how to make bolt-action drivetrains. The customers expect Ferrari to be cutting-edge, and that demand-side statement, coupled with the march of technology, has driven the extinction of the manual transmission. If you find that "insulting", you've interpreted something in that statement that's not there.

 

Apparently you know "most manual owners"?
This is turning in to a silly discussion. The OP has posted a good question, but used a somewhat strong title. As always on forums people react with very strong personal opinions, not always based on experience or knowledge. Sometimes only to add oil to a growing fire.

This thread has made me curious about the manual 599, so I will test-drive one. I love my manual 612, and would not want to change it for anything else at the moment. But that does not mean that I have a negative opinion about F1 cars. I love them.

There is no right or wrong. It is simply a personal choice.

 

^^^^ indeed.

And several questions to the OP have gone unanswered ...

 

Try to back away but you can't

You implied that someone ordering a 350 grand car ordered it with F1 not because they thought that was the best way to drive the car but because it was simply "the latest thing". Sort of like turning in their cell phones every 2 years. "Hey, it's cool to order an F1. I really don't care... I just want to be hip."

Yes, insulting to those who ordered them that way.

They ordered them not because it was the "latest thing" but because that's the way they thought they would enjoy the car most.

 

Yes, I agree. And it's because people jumped all over him saying HE was the problem, not the conditions he was driving in or the car.

It just CAN'T be the car! It must be an idiot driver.

 

Doesn't that effectively make it a 5 speed? Why bother having the first gear at all?

My guess is that the low first gear was needed by the F1 as a way of avoiding excessive clutch wear. The F1 could make it work, but it's much harder manually.

 

LOL

Not backing away from anything. I never wrote, never implied what you're suggesting.

Perhaps you're a bit sensitive today?

Here's what I find "insulting" (to Ferrari): the idea that they gradually started making fewer & fewer manual transmissions ... from the 360, to 430, to 599 ... because they forgot how (that's no more of an extrapolation than what you afforded my statements).

My (consistent) statements stand : we have seen fewer & fewer manual trans cars (including the 599) because, given the choice, customers don't want them ... not because Ferrari can't make good manual trans cars. The 599 manual is nothing more, nothing less, than the end of a transition period that began with the 360 (or perhaps even earlier).

 

What's wrong with 5 speeds? If you've got enough torque to pull-out in second, easily, and a tall enough final gear for all the top speed you'll ever need ... where's the problem?

By the way, i can (and have) used first gear lots of times in my 599, as well.

 

i heard the radio is also very difficult to use on the gated cars............

 

It's rather insulting to desire the latest technology? You're insulted by that, really?

Further, Jeff (a/k/a werewolf) did not write, nor even imply, that people who purchased a 599 don't know a good car from a bad one. Thus, what is rather insulting is that you would make such a false claim.

 

"The reason there's so few of them, is that everyone wants the latest technology ... which is found in the F1 transmission."

AKA: They prefer technology in their decision making instead of "what's best".

I rest my case.

 

Now you're "backing away." The latest technology is what's best, isn't it? You said it yourself in another thread when making the case for why today's Ferraris are F1 and not manual...

I want something from today's world -- I want the best I can get in terms of technology and performance.

 

How can I be backing away when I'm just showing you the actual quote in question? The person who wrote this clearly said he believes the manual is better. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

I'm not defending anything for or against manuals or F1's. Honestly, as far as I'm concerned, people should order and drive what they like. And, people should be free to say what they do and don't like too. Are we so thick skinned that we can't take one person's judgement and experience without a hissy fit?

I just think that saying people who ordered them because they don't know how to drive or what is a good car from a bad is pretty insulting to those who did it and like them.

I'm trying to figure out why this is so difficult to understand.

 

I can see why you call yourself "The Mayor" because like a politician you put words in other people's mouths and back away from your own.

You made false claims about what Jeff wrote as you got yourself into a "hissy fit" claiming you were "rather insulted." I confronted you about that.

You still have not explained why you made such a false claim. I doubt you ever will. That's why you're "The Mayor."

 

PLEASE stop making things up !!! PLEASE stop suggesting that I wrote, or implied, that people who order an F1 car don't know a good car from a bad car. Seriously ... where do you get this ????? For the record, I happen to own a few Ferrari F1 cars, as well as a few with a manual trans. Where exactly did i "insult" F1 owners .... ??? Show me the quote ... you haven't done it yet

me : "The reason there's so few of them, is that everyone wants the latest technology ... which is found in the F1 transmission."

you (on the same topic): "I want something from today's world ... I want the best I can get in terms of technology and performance."

These two statements are entirely consistent. Yet, you authored one, and are insulted by the other ... ????

Weren't you also comparing manual trans cars to white-out, pay-phones, and other outdated technology in the manual trans thread? Not only is that insulting to manual trans owners, but ... once again ... your comments are entirely consistent with what I wrote about the F1 trans being the "latest technology". Is it really that hard to see something right in front of your nose ???

 

thanks for the support Michael ... thought maybe i was losing my mind

I have no problem with people expressing a preference, regarding manual vs F1 trans. None at all. Where I take issue, is the suggestion that the gated 599 is somehow "faulty" or broken by design, and that's why there's so few of them. In my experience (as an owner and driver), I find nothing at all "faulty" or broken about the design. And I suspect the reason there's so few of them, is because the demand for the manual trans has diminished (in contrast to the F1 trans) ... not because Ferrari built a bad drive-train with the manual trans.

EDIT : In fact, it's a bit hard for me to understand, technically, how a single-clutch drive-train would be 'wonderful' with an electro/hydraulic clutch activation, but 'terrible' with a pedal/hydraulic clutch activation. What's so different, technically, that would render manual control (with user modulation) to be a poor design, but not the F1 (SCT, mind you)? Other than faster upshifts, and more easily rev-matched downshifts, of course .. neither of which are the topics of current debate. I'd honestly be interested to hear the technical details ... because my experience doesn't support this suggestion.

 

Indeed each to their own. I was looking at a 599 and in the end didn't buy one because I really enjoyed driving the California and 458 with the dual clutch. The decision was also partly because I use my cars as daily drivers and didn't want the hassle of clutch issues etc.

I also accept the fact that I am not a world class driver and I may not know how to get the most out of my manual and minimize clutch wear etc. But then again, why should I have to worry about that? If I were more mechanically minded it wouldn't bother me and I would probably enjoy working on my car.

So for me, I'm happy to have a great daily driver that I don't have to worry about. If there's a gearbox issue - back to the dealer and give me another one - no cost to me - excellent. The fact that the daily driver has a fabulous engine and one of the best most fun (to me) gear boxes on the planet is a bonus.

Makes me think of my bicycle. I recently got the Campagnolo EPS (electronic) gear shift on my Pinarello Dogma 2 - I thought people that had electric gears on bicycles were wa....ers. Having tried it it's brilliant and I wouldn't go back.

David

 

My first suspicions were hilly terrain and a high performance clutch design. Would the same issues crop up even with a Carrera GT? perhaps... Just send the car over to me. I'll happily take in the junk that nobody wants. And I do hope the gated are priced lower...

 

I'm still trying to understand why some are suggesting using 2nd gear to solve the problem. As 2nd gear is taller than 1st and we are talking hilly terrain that would require MORE clutch slip ... so I'm confused?

I would have thought that a 599 would have enough torque that you could move away pretty much at idle in 1st, thus like a race clutch, get it moving and then give it a bit more ... of course i'm not talking about a race start here.
Pete

 

You are right about second gear of course Pete.

I started "the official 599GTB manual transmission thread" but I want it to be a helpful thread. Exhibiting the best of what this community is capable of.

I will bump it some day, but I'm waiting for the name calling to subside here.




PS. I got the F1 and it's delightful. I didn't buy it because I did not know how to, or was no good at driving a manual.

It is true that I did stall a gated 599 once. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn once.

 

To werewolf and 575 mike.

I get it. I'm not trying to imply anything but that's just the way I read it and I think a lot of others did too. Clarifying your positions helps everyone.

If I misunderstood, I apologize.

I don't want this thread to go way off line here because I think the OP's issues may be of some help to some future owners going through this same debate. That's why we are here.

But, I also think name calling and implying people who "like some kind of gearbox" are inferior or lack judgement in anyway is also uncalled for. If you weren't doing that, again, I'm sorry. But that's how I read it, or read into it.

Like any piece of engineering, there are pluses and minuses. And, we are all different. We like different things. Just because people like different things doesn't make them wrong. It just makes them different.

If I misunderstood the words written, I'm sorry. But I'm just reading the words and intent as I see them.

I know the title of this thread set some people off emotionally. I can understand that. And, maybe it was over the top and uncalled for itself.

But, its a good subject to discuss and one that could be helpful to a lot of others if we stay focused on what's going on and not on the individual preferences of owners.

That's it. To the OP, sorry for disrupting this thread. I hope others now can join in and give some good advice or opinions.

 

Jeff, I agree with you. Another issue with John's post is that he now claims the 599 gated version is faulty, but just four (4) months ago he had a completely different opinion of the gated 599 saying that he loved the car!

In fact, this is what the OP wrote just four months ago...

"I love my 2007 599 GTB with the manuel trans. I have a 6 speed. I have slight problems going up steep hills. But nothing further then that. I have no complaints at all. I bought mine from Algar. And added the factory power cube warranty. No problems. do not let people scare you its easy to drive the 599 once you get the hang of it. John..."

Look, passions run deep when it comes to Ferrari ownership. So we react passionately to negative and positive comments about our beloved Ferraris!

See what Il Commendatore has wrought!

EDIT: Just read Bob's post above. BTW, I have always enjoyed reading Bob's posts and his unmitigated passion for Ferrari! I apologize as well for getting carried away!

 

To TheMayor : thank you

To the OP, these questions are still in my mind, to help understand the problem a bit better :

 

I know F1 and I knew Manual well, and Manual...., you're no F1. MHO only.

Gentlemen you will take a 5 minute break while you load your clips. Then " game on ".