steering rack leaking rubber boots | FerrariChat

steering rack leaking rubber boots

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Martin308GTB, Apr 2, 2008.

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  1. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

    Jan 22, 2003
    4,259
    Black Forest Germany
    Full Name:
    Martin N.
    Hello from Germany,

    I have a slight leak on my 308 steering rack. After a thorough cleaning it seems, that one of the rubber boots has a tiny crack.
    I'm not too happy with this, because 5 years ago I replaced them with some - though a perfect fit - aftermarket boots.

    I ask, because recently the unofficial Ferrari parts suppliers offer some weird looking, apparently ' universal fitting ' rubbers, which, from what I heard, have a bad fit on the steering rack housing side.

    Do any of you have any hints for me, where obtaining perfectly fitting rubbers ? Or can someone confirm, that there are problems with the fit of those widely spread unofficial boots ?

    Best Regards and thank you in advance

    Martin
     
  2. bert308

    bert308 Formula 3

    Nov 30, 2002
    1,776
    Roermond Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Bert Kanters
    I got mine from Superformance a few years ago. Recently I fitted their quick steering rack and the boots were still like new. However I think originally the steering rack is supposed to be filled with oil, mine had grease in it. I cleaned the old grease and filled with the white lithium grease.
     
  3. gsjohnson

    gsjohnson Formula 3

    Feb 25, 2008
    2,291
    Woodland Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    GS Johnson
    The boots are designed to protect the seals and shafts of the steering rack. The boots do not retain the fluid and seal your rack. Your problem is deeper. Probably the rack seals underneath the boots. A more extensive repair than just the boots.
     
  4. mrpcar

    mrpcar Formula 3

    May 27, 2007
    1,114
    Chino hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Robin
    #4 mrpcar, Apr 2, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    gsjohnson is correct, the rubber boot is not to contain the fluids, sounds like your steering rack is leaking. You should get that replaced or looked at before replacing another rubber boot.

    Usually the power steering fluid will eat through the rubber boot and cause it crack.
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  5. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

    Jan 22, 2003
    4,259
    Black Forest Germany
    Full Name:
    Martin N.
    Sorry, but you guys with the last two posts are wrong. There are no separate seals inside the 308 steering rack. There's just a bushing for guidance purposes on the passenger side and NOTHING on the driver's side.
    Most people wonder, but the boots have to hold the oil. Me too, till I dismantled the completely internally rusted steering rack of a friend's GT4 some years ago. In the meantime I have seen five 308 steering racks from the inside and none of them had any separate seals.
    The only seal on the steering rack is where the pinion exits the housing.

    My problem is just, where to obtain genuine rubber boots, because what's currently on the market seem to fit badly.
    Bert; thanks for your input. The boots I currently have, are also from Superformance. But I purchased them 8 years ago and installed them 5 years ago.
    What they have now looks completely different.

    Are there further experiences from 308 DIY owners ?

    Best Regards from Germany

    Martin
     
  6. mrpcar

    mrpcar Formula 3

    May 27, 2007
    1,114
    Chino hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Robin
    LOL! that's funny. And here I thought all steering racks are the same. Thanks for your education.
     
  7. jh355

    jh355 Formula Junior

    Feb 12, 2004
    424
    Halluci-Nation
    Full Name:
    Craven Morehead
    Ferrari steering racks are unique in their construction, but similar in many aspects to other manual racks.

    1.)Ferrari racks used 80 W oil, and 000 Grease (not to be confused with 0 grease), basically the same products with the addition of lithium soap binders to thicken the grease. Later racks used Grease simply because it didn’t leak out quite as soon. As greases ages, it never forgets where it came from and ends up back at 80 w and can eventually leak out.

    2.)The boots are designed not only to keep moisture and debris out, but also to push the lubrication from one side of the rack to the other, that’s how the internal components (spherical joint, bearings, pinion, and bushing etc.) in the “Rack” are lubricated. If the boots are comprised, contamination will wear and corrode the components, and as the rack is pushed in and out, the boot will squirt oil on the floor.

    Depending on what style rack you have (TRW / Cam Gears); I have OE boots, Inner Tie rods, and rebuild kits in stock if you want to go that far into it. PM if you want to explore this option.

    If you would prefer to bolt a completed assembly in rather than mess with it, I have a few rebuild racks in stock.
     
  8. FandLcars

    FandLcars F1 Rookie

    Aug 6, 2006
    3,057
    Tempe, Az
    Full Name:
    Rick Schumm
    Good point! Great explanation! Just wondering if you have anything for 348s? Not sure if you are a business or have a website (checked your profile). Thanks!
     
  9. gsjohnson

    gsjohnson Formula 3

    Feb 25, 2008
    2,291
    Woodland Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    GS Johnson
    Another Ferrari education (of many) that I have received.
     
  10. jh355

    jh355 Formula Junior

    Feb 12, 2004
    424
    Halluci-Nation
    Full Name:
    Craven Morehead
    FandLcars,

    A local member needs his 348 rack rebuilt, but has been focused on tying the knot, the F car has taken a back seat to the girl. The goal is to create a rebuild kit, for the 348, but have not located a donor rack yet for parts sourcing.

    What I can tell you is; the 348 rack is similar to the Cam Gears design used in the 328, and therefore many of the rebuild components I stock.

    I can not take credit for 96% of David’s (fastradio) 365 BB suspension work; but we did custom build a rack for him as well as other NLA suspension components. Check out his work here;

    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185783

    His attention to every miniscule detail is absolutely remarkable even by concourse standards.
     
  11. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

    Jan 22, 2003
    4,259
    Black Forest Germany
    Full Name:
    Martin N.
    thank you for your offer. Except that described slight leak, my steering rack works trouble-free. Without any play or similar hassles.
    I have inquired at Ferrari UK for a pair of new rubber boots. They have them in stock at a surprisingly low price. But there are two different versions and I just have to determine, which are the correct ones for my steering rack.

    Talking about your statement above; regarding the aging grease: I agree, that any grease will finally bleed, when not in motion.
    But here we have permanent movement. Do you think grease bleeding is a problem though ?
    I still have transmission oil in my steering rack, but seriously think about replacing it with grease.
    Do you have any doubts about this ? Or, what kind of grease should I use to replace the steering rack oil ?

    Best Regards and thank you

    Martin
     
  12. jh355

    jh355 Formula Junior

    Feb 12, 2004
    424
    Halluci-Nation
    Full Name:
    Craven Morehead
    Martin,

    If you have a later 308, you most likely have the same boot on both sides of the rack, unless the rack has been changed (TRW = different boots, Cam Gears = same boot both sides). Later style racks used 000 BP grease (it’s NLA). The best currently available substitute is Shell Alvania 00 which can be purchased in a minimum quantity of 5 gals (I also stock 8oz squeeze bottles of Alvania). My personal opinion is grease / oil goes bad after about 10 years (it is a petroleum product), so the oil in your rack most likely needs to be replaced anyways. In order to complete this job properly, the rack should be removed so you can clean all the old material out of the bearings Etc... That’s also a good time to inspect the rack, and replace / repair anything which is out of spec. The rack is often the most overlooked part of Ferrari ownership (out of site = out of mind), but is what keeps us out of the mulberry bushes.
     
  13. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

    Jan 22, 2003
    4,259
    Black Forest Germany
    Full Name:
    Martin N.
    thanks again;
    in the meantime it became clear, that I have the CamGear rack. The suspension and steering is just so important for me like the engine. And I think, a Ferrari with worn suspension is underperforming.
    Some time ago I drove a 308 GT4 with a badly worn steering and it made a huge difference.
    The only thing, what makes me wonder is, that 5 years ago I had removed my steering rack. Checked it and found no irregularities besides leaking. I sealed it, replaced the pinion seal and put the new rubber boots onto it. That was it.
    And now, only just 5 years later one of the rubbers is again leaking. I don't know why; I can barely see the crack in the boot, but it is there. It doesn't look as if the rubber is deteriorated, neither does it look like any rodent bite. We sometimes have martens here, but such damages looks completely different. BTW; my neighbour drove around for four weeks in summer with a marten cadaver lying on top of the engine. The poor animal tore down the noise insulation and got trapped beneath. My neighbour never looked under the hood, until the fetor became unbearable.

    But back to my steering; Therefore I came to the conclusion, that the boots I purchased back then are of inferior quality.
    Now I purchase those genuine rubbers from Ferrari UK and stick with the oil, because I have a box with 24 pcs.singe ltr. containers of Agip Rotra MP. I have a contract with Agip and fill my engines with their Sint 2000 out of a 60 ltr. barrel and transmissions with their Rotra MP, which I get surprisingly cheap.

    Best Regards from Germany

    Martin
     
  14. jh355

    jh355 Formula Junior

    Feb 12, 2004
    424
    Halluci-Nation
    Full Name:
    Craven Morehead
    My experience with anything rubber that was manufactured or spec built in Italy is not good. Virtually every one of our cars with 10 year old suspension rubber are starting to show signs of deterioration, the boots are no exception. There is no way to tell now, but I suppose it’s possible they sold some old stock, inventory which was not rotated properly. It’s also possible the boot was pinched between the Housing and the Spherical joint when turned to hard lock. I’m not sure how this would happen with OE boots, but possible maybe.

    Personally, I wouldn’t put 80w in a Ferrari steering rack, even though it was used extensively throughout the 70’s period. The pinion Gear has two Angular contact bearings on either end of the shaft, using oil the upper bearing has no method of being lubricated properly or continuously, elevated 3” higher than the oil level (maybe hitting a pot hole would jostle some up there). The other problem is how do you pour the oil in the rack, to top it off? On a Ferrari rack, you would need to remove the rack from the car, stand it on end, and pour the 80w in. With 000 grease, it’s as simple as cracking the large boot clamp, and squirting some in the boot, when you turn the rack the other direction, the grease will be transferred to the gear portion (assuming the boots are in good shape).
     
  15. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

    Jan 22, 2003
    4,259
    Black Forest Germany
    Full Name:
    Martin N.

    this make sense. Thank you. I will ask my Agip agent, in which quantities I can get the grease, they officially recommend for later Ferrari 308s. It's Agip MU 00.

    Best Regards from Germany

    Martin
     
  16. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

    Jan 22, 2003
    4,259
    Black Forest Germany
    Full Name:
    Martin N.
    today I received the new steering rack boots from Ferrari UK. They seem NOT to be NOS, but new soft and smooth rubber Made in Britain. Im fairly delighted, that it's still possible to get parts, which don't have that dreaded imprint of that dreaded country, which arranges the Olympic Games this year :-| Or should I go to the Politics section with this ?

    So I hope the best.

    Best Regards from Germany

    Martin
     
  17. alfa4door

    alfa4door Rookie

    Dec 13, 2008
    5
    Hello

    I need to rebuild the rack in my 308 and would like to get in touch with John H. JH355. John, if you read this or if ony one can direct me in the right direction (e-mail or tel or web address) could you please send me a e-mail at [email protected]
    thanks, Andrea
     
  18. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

    Jan 22, 2003
    4,259
    Black Forest Germany
    Full Name:
    Martin N.
    why not send him a Private Message; he's still out there. His last FChat posting was seven days ago.

    Best Regards from Germany

    Martin
     
  19. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
    9,294
    CHNDLR
    Full Name:
    Scott
    #19 synchro, Feb 19, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    John does great work.
    Here's a photo of my Dino's steering rack that he rebuilt. Prior to the rack, I had the A-arms powedercoated elsewhere and he matched the finish and texture perfectly. I feel safe at 5mph, 50mph or whatever speed. You should see his facility, don't want to say too much but he has four Haas six-axis CNC machines for his use.
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  20. jsumnertx

    jsumnertx Karting

    Dec 9, 2004
    162
    Austin
    Given the pain, when is the time to decide to fix a leaking rack?

    I just changed my coolant and found the rack wet and coated with gunk

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