steering rack rebuild | FerrariChat

steering rack rebuild

Discussion in '206/246' started by champtc, May 16, 2007.

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  1. champtc

    champtc Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2004
    732
    #1 champtc, May 16, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Enthusiastically I took the steering rack on my 71 euro gt apart in order to install a quicker steering rack. I probably didn't need to do it but I like to take things apart. I am enclosing a picture of the rack sans the bearings which held the pinion gear in place. I attempted to push one of the bearings out on a press but I didnt realize that it was held together by a circlip and were not in fact one integral piece. The bottom came off and all the ball bearings scattered on the floor. I managed to push the rest of the bearing shell out (slightly chewed up the aluminum housing). The bearing that was exactly opposite (supporting the bottom end of the pinion shaft) is an exact match although not sealed had the following identification "R&M b18748 England". I have tried to cross reference this bearing but no luck. If anyone knows where I can get a replacement I would be appreciative. Importantly, the smaller diameter black circle you see is the seal that is used on the external side of the bearing and the steering column attaches here. I read John Corbani's thread re his steering rack but mine did not have any plastic shims whatsoever supporting the steering rack arms. However it is an early car. The rack itself says CAMGEARS LTD and is # 21465 on one end of the rack and #21461 on the pinion side of the rack. I have enclosed a few pictures to review. Thanks
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  2. John Corbani

    John Corbani Formula 3
    Honorary Owner

    May 5, 2005
    1,153
    Santa Barbara, CA
    Full Name:
    John Corbani
    I never got into the pinion area. The bearing I replaced was in the enlarged section at the left of the 3rd picture. It kept the rack shaft centered in the housing. I did not even try to find a replacement part. Just designed a part that I could get in place without taking everything apart. Has worked fine for the past few years and lots of miles. Keep trying for the replacement bearings. The basic mechanism was used all over the place, in many countries, in many marques. Should be possible with a little digging. Good luck.
    John
     
  3. dinogts

    dinogts Formula 3
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Didn't the 308 use the exact same steering rack as a 308?

    Mark
     
  4. celestialcoop

    celestialcoop Formula Junior
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    Mar 20, 2006
    715
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    Coop
  5. champtc

    champtc Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2004
    732
    actually i bought that kit from Superformance when I was in the Uk (these guys are the very best)...however, it does not come with new bearings etc. So I took the rack apart and want to replace the bearings etc. I suspect that they are standard size since it is from a UK mfg. I have found a brand new morris mini rack for $200 bucks ...and although I am tempted to just buy it to see if it fits I am going to try to find new bearings & redo the one I have. I suspect that this is pretty common...so we will see. I am calling the Timken dist tomorrow to see if they have a fit.
     
  6. celestialcoop

    celestialcoop Formula Junior
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    Mar 20, 2006
    715
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    Coop
    For champtc:
    I've a '64 Austin Mini Cooper S. If my memory serves me correctly, the housing looks different. I don't believe the rack is interchangeable with the one in my Dino. I'll go out and compare the two now & get back with you. (The new racks from Minimania are 2.7 or 2.2 ratio. The Dino is 3.28. I believe the one you have from Superformance is 2.5?) As John said, lotta applications. Our 289 Cobra, Bizzarrini, Genie, Pantera and Tiger all had Cam Gears Ltd racks, too.
    1. These guys have kits for Cam Gears racks, which seem to be the same p/n as "69-2000" Ferraris-
    http://www.panteraparts.com/kits.html
    2. A little late, but it might help-
    http://www.panteraplace.com/page76.htm
    3. Here's an '85 308 rack rebuild process...might help, too-
    http://www.*****************/cgi-bin/forum/show.cgi?tpc=5&post=10083

    For dinogts:
    Mark, Superformance lists the same p/n for the rack kit for 206/246 and 308. 'sounds like it may be the same rack.
    Here's an article with specs on the 308 rack-
    http://www.race-cars.com/partbd/messages/15115.htm

    OK, to the garage.
    Coop
     
  7. celestialcoop

    celestialcoop Formula Junior
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    Mar 20, 2006
    715
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    Coop
    For champtc,
    I measured the rack on my Mini. The housing is 19" long; yours should be about 23". Though the Mini's pinion shaft is about .5" in diameter, it has 32 splines; I understand that yours should have 37.
    http://www.panteraparts.com/kits.html
    lists bearings for the rack.
    Good luck & keep us posted.
    Coop
     
  8. champtc

    champtc Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2004
    732
    coop- u are right on...the rack is 22.75" long....I called a mini shop & their racks are only 19" long. I will check with the Pantera site...I'm not sure how you know all this stuff but you are absolutely correct!! I will keep u advised of my progress...thanks a lot!!!!
     
  9. WaltP

    WaltP Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
    1,512
    Cape Canaveral/Atlanta
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    Walt P
    Any good bearing shop should be able to measure and find replacement bearings rather easily.
     
  10. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2003
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    Dave M.
    http://www.obsolete-bearings.com/

    also, I have an R & M cross reference CD somewhere. Might take me a few days to dig out, but it cross references them with several currently available bearing co's.

    that's why my gearbox bearings cost $75, instead of the $750 that Ferrari wanted for a couple of them.

    I'll post it up when I find it, stay tuned,

    Dave
     
  11. champtc

    champtc Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2004
    732
    Dave- I pm'd u a few days ago on this as I thought I remembered that you had found some bearings. I checked in with Panteraparts as Coop suggested but they dont sell many of the replacement parts and are more interested in doing an exchange unit (all rebuilt) rather than selling the individual pieces. I called the local Timken distributor & even had them look at the fchat pics of the bearings but no luck. However, there are a variety of parts that I would like to replace in the rack(bushings seals etc). I think these racks are also on the 308's as Coop suggested. I will just have to keep digging and I would be very interested in your R&M cross reference as no one that I have contacted has them. Thanks
     
  12. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 10, 2003
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    Dave M.
    I also have a box full of bearings that I got with some other Dino Junk I bought. I'll look through the box, they're all labeled, and see what I have.

    Dave M.
     
  13. champtc

    champtc Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2004
    732
    Dave- I called Obsolete Bearings today & they had no reference to the bearings (R&M) that were used in my steering rack. If you get a minute I would be very interested in your cross reference. Thanks
     
  14. celestialcoop

    celestialcoop Formula Junior
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    Mar 20, 2006
    715
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    Coop
    These folks might have the correct bearing. It's a bit of a long shot, but probably worth a call. Measure your bearing and seal--ID, OD, thickness--& have that info ready to compare with the XKs rep.
    https://www.xksunlimited.com/xks/merchant.ihtml?id=303&step=2

    Speaking of dimensions, can you list those for us? We might be able to track something down, too.
    Keep the faith...a bearing & seal are out there somewhere.
    Cheers,
    Coop
     
  15. celestialcoop

    celestialcoop Formula Junior
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    Mar 20, 2006
    715
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    Coop
  16. champtc

    champtc Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2004
    732
    Coop- thanks...i checked my xk unlimited catalogue last night & no close fits (but a great idea)...stupidly although I have a garage full of British metal (shhh dont tell anyone!!) I never bothered to look. I am trying to track down the author of that Pantera article and am waiting to see if I can get his # (Mike Drew). I will check this new place & measure everything up. This has to be simple but I am determined to figure it out...the car wont be going anywhere for a while & I am in no hurry. I will keep you posted on my progress. Thanks
     
  17. champtc

    champtc Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2004
    732
    ok...I am getting through all of this! So far no one can cross reference my bearing number..not even the mfg themselves! However, the only difference that I see in the original bearings and easy to find replacements is that the original had a shoulder on the one side of the bearing. Hopefully a straight replacement will suffice. I have ordered 2 bearings from www.applied.com (ID 9/16, OD 1 3/8, Width 7/16- remember this rack was made in UK and uses standard measurement). In looking at the rack itself it appears that the only thing that will be required (I hope) will be an oil seal to prevent oil from coming up where the pinion gear meets the steering column shaft. I am pretty sure I can find one that will fit. I am hoping to get the other parts from the Pantera place but if the bearings fit I wont need much. I will update with my progress. Thanks for all of your help.
    PS I probably should have just left it all alone as it was fine anyway!!!
     
  18. celestialcoop

    celestialcoop Formula Junior
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    Mar 20, 2006
    715
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    Coop
    Champ,
    'glad you are making progress.
    Thanks for the update; continued luck with the rest of the parts search.
    Coop
     
  19. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2003
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    Dave M.
    Went through my cross reference book.

    no luck. A couple near misses, but nothing exact.

    appears to be close to some morris stuff but nothing exact.

    DM
     
  20. champtc

    champtc Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2004
    732
    thanks for looking...i expect the new bearings next week...we'll see how they work...more than anything I just wanted to see how it all works...now I know (should have left it alone!!)
     
  21. GvilleBill

    GvilleBill Rookie

    May 7, 2023
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    Bill Parmele
    Champtc,

    Did your bearings work? And if so, can you provide me with the bearing designation?

    Thanks!
    GvilleBill
     
  22. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

    Sep 27, 2007
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    Norfolk - UK
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    Tony
    He hasnt been on here for a number of years, dont know what happened to him!
     
  23. GvilleBill

    GvilleBill Rookie

    May 7, 2023
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    Full Name:
    Bill Parmele
    Thank you for the heads-up!
    Bill
     
  24. swift53

    swift53 F1 Veteran
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    Nov 17, 2007
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    Champ is around. Try a PM.

    Regards, Alberto
     

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