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Stepneygate emails - how it all happened

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by tifosi12, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Hamilton didn't let Alonso by in qualifying in Hungary. That irritated Alonso to no end as we all have seen. After qualifying Alonso decided that he no longer wanted to drive for McLaren. Together with his manager he went to Bernie and had a discussion for an hour in Ecclestone's motorhome to find a way to get out of the McLaren contract. It was at that occasion, that Alonso showed Bernie transcripts of the emails between him and de la Pink. The transcripts were in Spanish, but with an English outline. Bernie instantly realized the severity and consequences of this dialogue. Bernie made copies of the transcripts and went with that to Mosley the next day. Mosley then issued the letter to all drivers to come forward.

    In the second WMSC hearing the entire defense case presented by McLaren became meaningless. The email transcripts and the evidence they presented was overwhelming. It became also very clear, that McLaren's car did indeed benefit greatly from the information exchange: The car was already done and there was little of the aero or engine information from the Ferrari that would help. The McLaren's weak spot was its brake system. The 300+ exchanges between Stepney and Coughlan were focusing on that. The 750+ pages gave the first idea, but McLaren needed more details and Stepney provided them, including 3D cad drawings on how to best install the system in the car. This all happened in April/May. Thereafter the brake issues on the McLaren were resolved.

    Source: October issue of BusinessF1 (not verbatim, but summarized)

    There isn't much Ferrari technology in the McLaren, but the braking system came from Maranello. If you think how much time is gained/lost by having the perfect brake balance, you realize how unfair it really is to still see these two cars running for the Championship. When I read the details, it made my stomach turn. Sorry Alonso and Hamilton, but you don't deserve the title this year.
     
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  3. Prova85

    Prova85 Formula 3

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    Tell me again why Hammy and Alonshole are still racing this year :rolleyes:
     
  4. GTE

    GTE F1 Veteran

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    to give the people what they want. Bread and games.
     
  5. Ambassiatore

    Ambassiatore Formula Junior

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    ...but hey!!!!...some chatters still say there was NOTHING used on the McLiaren Car so they are fit to win the championship in an ILEGAL CAR???

    ...no matter what happens this weekend, KIMMI IS WDC 2007

    Bernie needs Hamilton to win this so badly they didnt kick BOTH drivers out...lets hope for the rain to be the final judge...
     
  6. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Quite frankly it was never really clear to me either what exactly ended up in the McLaren, if anything. That doubt has been removed. And once our friend Ted gets his BusinessF1 subscription, he can read the details for himself. :)

    The thing about the air/gas in the tires didn't mount to much, but the braking system is the smoking gun. I'm no engineer, but apparantly the Ferrari system is immensely complex and advanced with variable bias depending on speed etc.
     
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  8. V12scream

    V12scream Karting

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    The "show" that has become F1 must go on!

    A Senna/Prost T1 would solve a multitude of sins....:)
     
  9. Ambassiatore

    Ambassiatore Formula Junior

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    DAMN!!!!...remember when I said this was going tobe one looooonnnnggggg decade with the McLiaren all over the Ferarris neck?

    ...damn breaks...no wonder the golden boy only breaks on the last 2 feet of straight track!
     
  10. speedy_sam

    speedy_sam F1 Veteran

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    Thanks for the post Andreas. Can we get a scan of the article?

    I think Ron Dennis personally is innocent. He doesn't seem to be a guy who would cheat based on his past history.

    It shows that in today's organization the top guy is really blissfully unaware of the technical functionings. When the company was small I'm sure he had the pulse of everything that happened in the company.
     
  11. cantsleepnk

    cantsleepnk Formula Junior

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    Be careful Andreas someone might accuse you of being blinded by the red mist.
     
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  13. Anthony_Ferrari

    Anthony_Ferrari Formula 3

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    I felt the same when I downloaded and read the whole transcript from the second Paris hearing. It was obvious that McLaren team members were benefiting from real-time information on Ferrari's set-up, tactics, and design. It made me really angry and I couldn't help feeling that Alonso and Hamilton should have been excluded from the Cahmpionship. I still believe that, but there is also a part of me that is loving this season. Maybe next season I should just watch the races and not look at any websites or newspaper reports - anyone doing that this year will have really enjoyed the season.
    My faith in F1 has certainly taken a beating this season, but like a beaten spouse I'll keep coming back for more 'cos I love it and I know it'll change!
     
  14. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I'm a bit hesitant to do that for copyright reasons. Should BusinessF1 really go belly up, I can do it. :) It is a very long article btw. About 8 pages.

    You have a good point about RD. Actually the article states just that: Dennis was incredibly naive and looked like a fool at the WMSC hearing because he genuinly believed they did nothing wrong and didn't realize that all his managers lied to him. He also didn't believe it when Alonso told him about the emails and thought Fernando was just bluffing. Dennis hired external lawyers to investigate his company and perform interviews and take affidavits of his managers. Turns out the managers all lied to the lawyers as well and the lawyers didn't catch it.

    Not sure I really believe Dennis was that naive and clueless. But it hardly matters: He either lied himself or is a complete fool who has no idea what is going on in his company. Mercedes should replace him in either case.
     
  15. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    LOL

    Remember the countless times folks questioned my Tifosiness?

    Couldn't care less.
     
  16. cantsleepnk

    cantsleepnk Formula Junior

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    #13 cantsleepnk, Oct 19, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  17. 355

    355 F1 Rookie
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    no longer........Thanks
     
  18. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Ah the excuse thread :)

    Mental backup in progress - Do Not Disturb!
     
  19. 355

    355 F1 Rookie
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    To me it has been very obvious that the two silver drivers should have been excluded a long time ago but that would have cost formula 1 money and that is their #1 concern...not fairness. If Ron has any integrity left in him at all he would pull his cars from the track one way or another during this weekend and give the championship to Kimi as he or Massa would have been the real champions if they had not bennefitted from Ferrari's braking system. Braking can save a car many tenths in qualifying and tons during a race. It is very obvious that the McCheater team would not have won many of the races they did without this stolen technology. If I was Lewis or Alonshole I would be ashamed to celebrate this weekend should either of them come out the socalled WDChampions. Infact if one of them wins they should walk over to Kimi and hand him the trophy. Sad year indeed but I must admit that it was exciting but in the end a scam. The sad thing is that this braking system will now be improved by McCheater and still be used next season.....It is no wonder that there were some delegates in Paris that wanted McCheater excluded for both this and next season.
     
  20. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

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    #17 RP, Oct 19, 2007
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  21. ScuderiaRossa

    ScuderiaRossa Formula 3
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    Isn't Mclaren still under scrutiny in 2008 to verify that no Ferrari technology is being used in their cars? Wouldn't they then have to adandon this braking system?
     
  22. 355

    355 F1 Rookie
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    The way the FIA is doing things anything is possible. First they have to weigh the dollar cost and then fairness.
     
  23. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

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    Integrity is what I said has been missing for a long time. Without any real integrity, what do you really have? I dont care to watch a free for all. If F1 is going to be the best spectacle of leading edge performance technology, it should also be a leader in integrity, sportsmanship, and gentlemanly behavior.

    [/QUOTE]Braking can save a car many tenths in qualifying and tons during a race. It is very obvious that the McCheater team would not have won many of the races they did without this stolen technology. If I was Lewis or Alonshole I would be ashamed to celebrate this weekend should either of them come out the socalled WDChampions. Infact if one of them wins they should walk over to Kimi and hand him the trophy. [/QUOTE]

    When Jaguar came onto the track with disc brakes, the first ever used in racing, it catapulted them far ahead of everyone even though they were much more underpowered. And it wasnt long before disc brakes became standard fare.

    As far as the drivers attitudes, it goes back to the above, integrity. I see racing, even F1, no differently than a group of neighborhood boys building soap box derby cars. Blatant cheating (not public picture snapping, etc..), dishonesty, unsportsmanlike conduct, and above all, theft of a competitors material, should always be cause for dismissal or disqualification. Anything less brings shame to the entire circus.
     
  24. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ
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    Thanks Andreas for the update, I agree neither Driver for McLaren should have any points. Kimi is the real 2007 WDC regardless of what happens this weekend.
     
  25. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I realize my timing makes it look like that, but that is more coincidental (based on when I got the mag from the UK and got a chance to read it).

    After the FIA verdict the McLaren cars should not have been allowed to run anymore this year. I know this is impractical and unrealistic, but Alonso and Lewis should have gone to other teams to finish up the season. In a way it is a bit like the USGP05: Whatever solution you come up with, it's just not going to be a good and fair one. Irrepairable dammage.
     
  26. Far Out

    Far Out F1 Veteran

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    Let's have us made some "KIMI WDC 2007" shirts and caps and walk around with them in Woking. If MCL really copied the entire brake system, that's pretty bad. The brakes are most important to today's racecars... I guess McLaren will use the system in 2008 and the FIA will let it pass to save Hamilton, with some "Oh well, in the meantime, we developed our own system which is coincidentally nearly the same as the Ferrari one" excuse. Sorry, but the fine and the loss of WCC points wasn't anywhere near a fair punishment. Loss of WDC/WCC points (and no fine, then) and disqualifaction for this (and the next) season would have been the measures of choice. I fear Hamilton or Alonso will win and in 2 years time, no one will remember the title was basically cheated.
     
  27. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I'll buy one.

    +1
    When the verdict came out, I was stunned that Ferrari was ok with it. They got screwed.

    I will remember. And many on here as well. But next year's title will go to Kimi anyhow. :)
     
  28. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    Here's my prediction.

    They want the drama of the competition to make the money and get the viewers. So they leave McLaren in the championship until the end. If they win, Bernie will take his money and then disqualify McLaren AFTER the race and award the championship to Kimi. That way he gets it both ways (Fairness to Ferrari but still having a nail-biting last race).

    If they were disqualified now, the season is done.

    Just my prediction.

    Birdman
     

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