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steve f's ban and your choices...

Discussion in 'Report Bugs & Ask Questions' started by rob lay, Oct 26, 2005.

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  1. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    Rob Lay
    How do you not understand this? I'm sorry, but I've been involved since the beginning, so let address your untruths.

    I did not ban anyone for speaking out, just like we merge threads, I asked that all discussion about the steve f ban be here and clearly stated the 7 day ban if you didn't follow that. I have not moderated or deleted a single post in THIS thread so I am not restricting anyone.

    I told you why I deleted other threads, everything had to be contained here. Its not fair to me a my job for me to sit here all day responding to posts. I make a few posts, allow for responses, reply to each, but if I'm not available I'm not going to let it go wild where I'll never catch up.
     
  2. LetsJet

    LetsJet F1 Veteran
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    May 24, 2004
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    Rob,

    I'm sorry I even tried to help...........





    You have all the answers -

    Good luck all
     
  3. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Thank you. Talk to me offline if you want. What I see is you came here with good intentions with a gun you thought was loaded and they turned out to be blanks. If not, then you would still be able to discus with me.

    It isn't about heavy moderation, the UK forum thinks it deserves no moderation.
     
  4. andrewg

    andrewg F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Sep 10, 2002
    4,667
    Chester, England
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    Rob

    The easy way is to allow Graham & Stig to take care of it for you, if you feel the need to take a slightly stronger line with the UK forum have a word with them or ask for additional help from the other mods / appoint more mods

    Whilst I can see your point and understand why you banned Steve and the other's (don’t agree with it in this case but understand) please try to bring this nonsense to a mutually beneficial and positive end
     
  5. Carbonrider

    Carbonrider Karting

    Aug 9, 2005
    137
    Harpenden, Herts
    Full Name:
    The Mad Professor
    Rob,


    While I am not comfortable with some of the stuff that been posted in the UK I have a feeling this is getting too personal.

    It is your forum, and I have no issue with the rules which are no different then any other forum I know.

    But at this point I am looking for reconciliatory tone and less personal attitude.
    I have said what I said hoping for a better UK forum where I, and others, will feel more comfortable. This is heading toward a UK forum where I, and very few others, will feel like in the desert.

    Please do the smart rather then the right thing. The world is seldom a just place.
     
  6. LeeP

    LeeP Formula 3
    BANNED

    Mar 28, 2005
    1,106
    West Yorkshire, UK
    Full Name:
    LeeP
    I really cannot believe my eyes - nor my ears!

    I think it is quite clear Rob that you cannot handle difficult situtations well. When you are challenged, you use what little power you do have to remove those who stand in your way from the site! Very diplomatic, I must say.

    Sounds a little like George Bush!

    Rob - people are trying to help you out here but you are making it blatently obvious that you only want it your way - or the highway. Well - I dont know how you play game at your side of the pond but this is supposed to be a compromise. I dont see you bending in any way.

    Where are our moderators? Seriously guys - what's going on? You are supposed to protect us from each other and other bullsh!t on this site.

    In all fairness, the gents on the UK Section do a damn fine job and don't interfere with your side (ie non UK sections).

    Rob - because you own the site or license for it, doesn't mean you can start and play about with its investors whenever you darn well feel like it. Each area is its own community and is totally different to each others. You seem to stay well in tune with other areas but venture very little onto here. My advice is - stay away from the UK section. We're a breed of our own. And we are one which, I am sad to say, you'll never integrate with.

    Regards

    Lee
     
  7. sletti

    sletti F1 Veteran
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    Nov 19, 2003
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    How dare you! Do you really think Graham and I are standing here with our cheese out in wind?
     
  8. sletti

    sletti F1 Veteran
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    Nov 19, 2003
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    Currently, our discussions continue in a different forum..... ;)
     
  9. tomw

    tomw Formula 3
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    Feb 25, 2004
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    Great post Lee.

    I won't make further comments as a) I've had a few beers tonight and b) you've said pretty much everything that needs to be said.
     
  10. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    :rolleyes: Let me slow down. I am getting accused of heavy moderation. I'm saying that the moderation we do isn't heavy, but that UK users don't want any moderation. So thus any moderation is heavy moderation. Now you understand?
     
  11. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    That is how it was done. You need to remember the issue I had with steve f was outside the UK forum.
     
  12. ScottyS4

    ScottyS4 Rookie

    Oct 27, 2005
    4
    Location: Location..
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    Scott
    I have been following this thread for the last few days (as i browse this forum and lots of others..) and as an outsider i just wanted to say that if the administrator wants to clean up this UK forum and stop all of the gutter language, the moaning and complaining about each other, about your clubs and even cost of memberships, so that you can get back to talking about the cars that you claim to be enthusiasts of.. (see RAY430RED above) then i would support him. i haven't even read an apology from the contributors who have insulted him and dragged a potentially good forum site into the ground, to try and settle this current problem.
    I'm afraid it shows you Ferrari owners in the arrogant light that most classic car clubs hold you anyway. We don't have any problems like this in the Porsche GB club, forums are mostly there to help on technical matters aswell as organising informal meetings alongside the club (not inspite of it..) and with good natured humour, not the regular insults and whinging i have witnessed here.
    Why don't you all buy a Porker and join a civilised enthusiats club, with level headed members (but then again, please don't, we enjoy it the way it is.!)

    Good Luck to ROB LAY.! I hope your new contributors treat you and your forum with a little more respect..
     
  13. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    I disagree, I'm standing up against getting pushed around. I didn’t let a small handful of users attack me publicly over something that was none of their business when they should have handled it positively offline. There is no room for users like that here.

    I'm not George's biggest fan either. Actually, that is a perfect analogy, so maybe it is just like George Bush. Everyone agrees Terrorists (bad UK users) are a problem and something needs to be done. George (Rob) goes in with force and calls all the terrorists out to kill them. Negative effects have been the friends and family (good UK users) of these terrorists only see those they know being killed without a true understanding of the root causes, so now they become terrorists (bad UK users).

    I think I just nailed it there!

    Not at all, how many times have I said for users to PM or email me with suggestions and feedback? At least two dozen users have done this properly and it has been a good experience.

    There are some things I have no compromise on. It is 100% unacceptable for users to shotgun threads attacking me because I banned a UK user not even in this forum. If we take an action that you don't agree with, then PM or email me about it and we'll talk about it like adults. The only reason at all I got a temper here was those uncalled for attacks and I will react the exact same way if it happens again. I'm very professional and understanding if people handle things properly and are respectful.

    Good to hear
     
  14. AC6

    AC6 Formula Junior

    Sep 14, 2004
    599
    Hong Kong
    Full Name:
    Justin
    Wow took me a while to read the whole thread!
    First of all I'm not taking sides here, I just genuinely want to know something...
    Rob banned Steve because he was rude to Rob, which sounds reasonable...but (in that particular OT thread) Steve was only rude to Rob because Rob was VERY rude to Dr.S (I was actually real surprised to see such attitude from Rob).
    So my question is, Rob you claim you don't like people with bad attitude, then why did you give Dr.S that very mean and sarcastic attitude in the OT thread? I seriously wanted to know the answer to that even before you banned Steve and all those other issues that arose afterwards.
     
  15. angelis

    angelis F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 18, 2004
    6,319
    London, England
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    Sy
    Rob, you have'nt handled this professionally or in an understanding manner from the start.

    Everytime you post something, you seem to antagonise a lot of people. Perhaps you should be less aggressive and patronising in your approach to both your moderators and paying customers.

    Your signature sums up your attitude to the Uk forum.

    "When somebody challenges you, fight back. Be brutal, be tough, just go get them."

    Well done. You've succeeded on all points there.


    And you still have'nt responded to my request to post the names or contact all those you consider to be *******s, hoodlums and terrorists.

    I'd just like to know if I qualify.

    The comment below also applies to you.

     
  16. LetsJet

    LetsJet F1 Veteran
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    May 24, 2004
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    Can you post a link to the thread please?
     
  17. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    That's a very good and fair question. Whether my answer satisfies you or not, it is a straw that broke the camels back situation for both. steve f has been out to get me for awhile, thus my reaction. Dr. S has tested my nerves before and similarly went public with something that should have been handled offline, thus my reaction.
     
  18. AC6

    AC6 Formula Junior

    Sep 14, 2004
    599
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    Full Name:
    Justin
  19. ylshih

    ylshih Global Moderator
    Global Moderator Owner Advising Moderator Honorary

    Mar 21, 2004
    15,064
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    Yin
    It's probably a mistake to get involved, but it seems that everyone is building fortifications for a siege and I thought I'd comment on how this issue looks to an impartial observer. I see a lot of UK posts since I scan all new postings and I have way too much time on my hands. I generally like the tone (e.g. the Make a Wish thread), but there are certainly some "pub" type behaviors (my way of describing it) I've encountered that I don't understand and I keep quiet about.

    In this particular case, this was all started by a comment of Steve F's, that, when repeated in this forum, most people said, "nothing wrong about that comment, that's just Steve F, he shouldn't have been banned, there goes Rob again". But when they said that, they were forgetting that they're applying UK forum standards to a post that was in another part of Fchat.

    Rob was in the middle of a business dealing (correcting a customer issue) and Steve F came along and inserted his comment. Now if this were my company or store and another customer came along and said in an aside to the first customer, "he's short and rude, isn't he" while I was trying to deal with that customer, I would be pretty damn pi$$ed and I would say to that intruding customer "sir, if you have a problem, let's take it elsewhere after I finish my business here", and if he persisted I would feel justified in calling security and ejecting him . If that's not the case in the UK, fine; but then this didn't take place on the UK forum either.

    Having said that Steve F behaved badly in what he did, I would also say that Rob probably has gone about it the wrong way in handling this. Part of this may be a misguided attempt to come across as showing understanding of the UK (the whole thing with you're a*******'s :), sheep jokes, etc); which really didn't help when people were failing to communicate to begin with. Another part of this is coupling two issues together that should have been kept separate (Steve F's post and UK forum behavior). Steve F's ban didn't require any more explanation than "he attacked another user, which happened to be me, in another thread". And the UK forum behavior should have been addressed by a private caucus with the UK moderators ("guys, I had to ban Steve F because he was out of line, can you help tone down the rhetoric of the rabble-rousers and once they've calmed down, can you figure out how to keep the "pub" behavior contained, maybe in sub-forum").

    Having described how a bystander is seeing this, I don't have a really good answer to how to fix this, other than that everyone steps back, takes a breath and says, "I'm sorry for what happened, we all shared some responsibility: Steve F was out of line, Rob could have done a better job, the UK forum folks could have listened and been listened to better."
     
  20. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    I disagree. Again, I believe where I went off was after the attacks had already been initiated by a few UK users. So debatable if I should ever loose my cool, even after provoked, but not debatable that I act like that from the start.

    All I can say is from this post, no, I don't have any problems with you. If you have problems with me, I hope that you contact me offline so we can work through it.
     
  21. AC6

    AC6 Formula Junior

    Sep 14, 2004
    599
    Hong Kong
    Full Name:
    Justin
    Thanks for answering my question, i'm not gonna be satisfied nor dissatisfied since my question was genuinely out of curiousity with no personal feelings towards the issue. ;)
     
  22. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    Yin, I think you have had the smartest post yet. When describing the problems and frustration I had I was cheering you on thinking that's what I've been trying to say. Even when you pointed out things I may have done wrong or where I messed up, I was still in agreement. Great job, even though you pointed out my mistakes and weaknesses, but I think that is important to heal from this. I'm not going to back down and say others weren't at fault, but I can also step up to mistakes I made.
     
  23. murph7355

    murph7355 Formula 3

    Nov 30, 2002
    1,691
    SE England Yorkie
    Full Name:
    Andy
    Rob

    I've just read through the whole of this. Not good.

    You (no one else) brought sponsors into this (and if I were a sponsor I'd be mighty pissed), perhaps as a means to justify your actions. The same sponsors refute they had anything to do with it (good job really - despite Manu's current prediliction for yellow Porsches, if I for a minute thought this was to do with him a Capristo would be on my car tomorrow and I wouldn't exchange pleasantries with him again).

    This is the second time you've "intervened" on the UK forum and shown the typical US attitude towards foreign policy. You're right, everyone else is wrong. The End.

    Fair dos. You started the place.

    Similarly, though, I subscribed because the UK section (in the vast, vast majority) has helped me with an expensive hobby and I felt it worth subscribing to keep the community going. I hope I've contributed back in more than just the fee to you.

    And you're killing it with your heavy handed tactics.

    I feel for the guys in the UK who feel alienated and don't like posting because they feel like they get flamed. To be honest, I thought this place a bit cliquey when I first joined in. But you know what - go to a few meets, get off your frickin arses and join in. It would have soon become very familiar and there are some top guys on here (even the ones with bastard child looking F-cars).

    Considered this a fair bit, but would appreciate it if you'd donate my subscription (pro rated) to a cancer charity and unsubscribe me (you can PM me to let me know where it's gone).

    No doubt I'll lurk every now and then, but I'd rather encourage the sort of forum that Pistonheads has become than be party to a GW-esque attitude to what was once a decent place to spend some free time.

    Murph7355
     
  24. rcallahan

    rcallahan F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Jul 15, 2002
    3,307
    Santa Barbara
    Full Name:
    Bob Callahan
    Rob,

    As a personnel favor to you I will gladly moderate and clean up this forum.

    NEW RULES FOR UK GUYS

    1. All posts must contain correct spelling. No more tyres, colours, arsholes, etc!
    2. All UK members must learn how to pronounce aluminium!
    3. Cigarettes are NOT to be called ***s!
    4. All FCHAT drivers must use right side of the road (unless drunk)!
    5. Stop the constant refrain "Bloody Hell"

    Bob :)
     
  25. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Owner Miami 2018

    Dec 1, 2000
    50,308
    Southlake, TX
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    Rob Lay
    PM sent.
     

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