Stiff Brake Pedal, No Rear Brakes | FerrariChat

Stiff Brake Pedal, No Rear Brakes

Discussion in '348/355' started by Kneedragger81, Dec 12, 2013.

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  1. Kneedragger81

    Kneedragger81 Rookie

    Dec 12, 2013
    8
    I have '95 355 Spider and brake pedal has become very stiff. I tried to bleed brakes and no fluid coming from rear. Brake lamps stay lit when apply brakes. Took off brake accumulator and fluid shot to ceiling and all over car (bummer). I suspect brake control module???
    I have no diagnostic trouble codes. I know the warning bulb is not shot. Anyone have a suggestion or advice to remedy this? Please. Workshop manual not really helping in terms of detail and procedures.

    Vladimir
     
  2. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 14, 2011
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    Tim Dee
    Bleed the rear brakes with the ignition key in the on position. You will feel the abs do its thing

    :)
     
  3. pnicholasen

    pnicholasen Formula 3

    Jan 14, 2011
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    You are very lucky you weren't injured or put a hole in the ceiling removing the accumulator. That's a high pressure reservoir. Don't try this at home, folks!
     
  4. Kneedragger81

    Kneedragger81 Rookie

    Dec 12, 2013
    8
    Thank you for the response. We already tried to bleed brakes with ignition on. We found out we have no pressure in line before safety valve (in middle center/rear). We also have no ABS and car is in 'emergency' mode. Any thoughts?
     
  5. pnicholasen

    pnicholasen Formula 3

    Jan 14, 2011
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    Can you get to the tube nut that connects the rear brake line to the master cylinder complex? If so, I would try loosening that with a brake line wrench to avoid rounding off the nut, and have someone gently (to avoid further spraying brake fluid episodes) push on the brake pedal and see if anything comes out. I'm assuming that the fluid reservoir is plenty full. It is compartmentalized and it can look like there's plenty of fluid, but it's all in the front brake chamber.
     
  6. Kneedragger81

    Kneedragger81 Rookie

    Dec 12, 2013
    8
    Pnicholsen...thanks for response! I forgot to mention we already loosened that nut w/ me pumping. Nothing coming out. My father w/ 40+ years foreign auto repair experience suspects faulty hydraulic unit or control module. But we are not too familiar with Ferrari and need to deduce the problem correctly because I believe Ferrari wants 13k for a hydraulic unit.

    Thank You
     
  7. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    I remember there was a recall notice about the ABS system not sure exactly what it was. Might be something to look into
     
  8. John_K_348

    John_K_348 F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2013
    2,753
    Boston, MA
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    John E. Kenney
    Yikes but sounds like you are on it. Any damage to the paint?
     
  9. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
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    Dec 1, 2004
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    Bruce Bogart
    I've seen the crossover line on the rears clog up. You might check that.
     
  10. pnicholasen

    pnicholasen Formula 3

    Jan 14, 2011
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    If nothing is coming out of the master cylinder assembly when the tube nut is loosened, then the problem is most likely up stream from there. I'm not an expert at all, but my next hail Mary would be to buy a brake master cylinder bleed kit (metric), they're like $6.00. You'll get a couple of plastic fittings that screw into where the brake line goes. Find the one that's the correct thread size, screw it in where the rear brake line was attached, put the supplied rubber tubing onto the nipple of the plastic fitting and then use a syringe, turkey baster, whatever (not compressed air!!!), to blow air gently through that tubing and see if you get bubbles into the reservoir. If so, I'd blow a little more, then use same syringe to see if you can suck fluid through the right direction. May the Force be with you!
     
  11. pnicholasen

    pnicholasen Formula 3

    Jan 14, 2011
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    Thinking further, if the above doesn't work, another half-assed trick I would try is unplugging all the electrical connectors that go into the master cylinder/hydraulic unit to see if by chance that's makes any difference. I believe there are 3 different plugs. If you can't find them, check out the Youtube video I did called "Ferrari 348 ABS Basics". I go over the different plugs and where they are located in part 1 and 2 of the series.
     
  12. Kneedragger81

    Kneedragger81 Rookie

    Dec 12, 2013
    8
    no paint damage. washed car immediately.
     
  13. Kneedragger81

    Kneedragger81 Rookie

    Dec 12, 2013
    8
    Thanks for all responses, guys! At this point we have unplugged all connectors, replaced accumulator and have gone through some electrical probes.

    What we know (our main concern at this point) is we have no brake pedal power assist and when removing brake line from brake hydraulic unit, we have no fluid coming out right there for rear lines. I will try to blow some air up the unit.
     
  14. pnicholasen

    pnicholasen Formula 3

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    One further idea if all else fails: there's always a very remote chance that maybe the ABS computer went crazy and sent a bad signal to the hydraulic unit shutting off one of the valves (yes, I realize that's pretty far fetched). If you pull the ABS computer out and type it's model number into Ebay you should be able to find one from a Lincoln that fits for $40.00 or so. Very unlikely to help, but cheap to try.
     
  15. pnicholasen

    pnicholasen Formula 3

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  16. phrogs

    phrogs F1 Veteran
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    Apr 13, 2004
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    Kzoo Michigan
    I would have started from the back and broke the lines until I found fluid.
     
  17. Kneedragger81

    Kneedragger81 Rookie

    Dec 12, 2013
    8
    Shopping for new Hydraulic Unit, boys. Thanks
     
  18. pnicholasen

    pnicholasen Formula 3

    Jan 14, 2011
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    Ouch, that hurts!! I guess no air could be blown up the rear brake fitting. If you've removed the unit already, I would try the same thing but with air from a compressor, just to be sure you don't have a little piece of crud stuck in a passageway. Getting a cheap computer replacement is unlikely to fix it, but I would try it. $40 vs $12,000 is a worthy gamble. I'm also assuming the unit can't be broken down into reparable components, it's more of an impenetrable block?
    If you do replace it, you might consider at your leisure, trying to open up the bad one to see what's inside and put lots of photos on Ferrarichat to increase the knowledge base of the brotherhood.
    Good luck!!
     
  19. roadracer311

    roadracer311 Formula 3

    May 6, 2009
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    According to a couple different sources, the rear brakes on 348's (and 1995 355's) won't bleed if the ABS pump isn't working. So, whatever is causing your error light, might be keeping the ABS pump from letting you bleed the brakes. In the case below, the original poster found he had a bad ABS pressure switch.

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/348-355/421432-348-rear-brake-bleeding.html
     
  20. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2011
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    Just on the point of the ignition working you should see the fluid level drop and hear a buzz.

    NB ignition should be on in order to top up fluid to the correct level

    Exciting video for you.... LOL

    http://s68.photobucket.com/user/jeffreyduckworth/media/Ferrari/348/Manual/G%20Wheels%20and%20Brakes/Brake%20Caliper%20Overhaul/2013-10-30124825_zps46243953.mp4.html

    BTW The workshop manual (not owners manual) has quite a detailed diagnosis section in the brakes section. Worth a look before buying any parts.
     
  21. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Try the ferrari recall maybe you will get lucky
     
  22. pnicholasen

    pnicholasen Formula 3

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    Any up-dates in the brake mystery?
     
  23. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran

    Aug 4, 2006
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    Vince V
    You should verify that when you turn on the ignition to position 1 that you hear the ABS pump activate. If not, that is your clue. Check fuses and relays first. You can bleed the system without the pump being activated - I have done this many times. You have another bleed screw on the master cylinder underneath it. I thought it was for the clutch but those 355's are so whacky!
     
  24. roadracer311

    roadracer311 Formula 3

    May 6, 2009
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  25. Kneedragger81

    Kneedragger81 Rookie

    Dec 12, 2013
    8
    Found a used hydraulic unit and did R&R. Now we are able to bleed all brakes and system working fine 1st day. Go to button it all up next day and now we have ABS light on constantly and not getting any blink codes when we fuse diagnostic slot.

    Thanks for all comments! Anyone have any input? This vehicle has 6k miles and the brake fluid was not maintained (thicker than normal).
     

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