STOP!!!! (New Brembo brakes) | Page 4 | FerrariChat

STOP!!!! (New Brembo brakes)

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by enjoythemusic, Aug 2, 2004.

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  1. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    13,196
    MO
    Just wondering, if you go such a tiny spacer, will you still get longer bolts?
     
  2. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    12,899
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    The Butcher
    I probably wouldn't change them. I think they are plenty long but I need to look at it. The bolts are already custom to work with the wheels, I made studs from hardened 4140 steel and then use standard 22mm lug nuts I got from tire rack.
     
  3. pma1010

    pma1010 F1 Rookie

    Jul 21, 2002
    2,559
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Philip
    Eric
    How would you change the MC sizing if adding 355 brakes to front of a 308 (Stock rear)? Does your answer change for a 328 (I have a 328 booster/mc on my 308)?

    If I wanted to changeout the booster/mc combination for a larger mc-only, can you also advise? [I want a high, firm pedal]

    BTW, if this is all covered in "Braking 101", please advise reference and I'll stop asking questions
    Philip
     
  4. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    12,899
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    The Butcher
    Now I'm a little confused. The Stop Tech kit for a 348/355 uses exactly these discs. I guess need to call them.
     
  5. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    13,196
    MO
    As I for other reasons. These cars weigh in at around 3100lb. Other cars of this weight are given bigger disks and rotors...why not us? And why for them?

    Also have you taken into account if our master cylinder is also a weak link in our system? Is it not very similar intrinsically to that of the F40, which is known for being a mediocre cylinder?
     
  6. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    12,899
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    The Butcher
    I'm not sure. The master cylinder need to be rigid and have a volume that will work well with the calipers. I don't know if it's a problem, I've never hear anything bad.
     
  7. chrismorse

    chrismorse Formula 3

    Feb 16, 2004
    2,150
    way north california
    Full Name:
    chris morse
    Mike,

    I am inclined to go along with your disc sizes, (same as 348, 355) and erring on the side of bigger ratner than smaller.
    I am way short of information to even suggest a change, and having only a rudimentary grasp of brake mechanics and function, I posit a few questions:
    1) Your car has substantially greater acceleration capacity and hence greater need for higher capacity brakes, how much.
    2) I would assume your tires to be at least comperable, if better, how much more front heat dissipating capacity would be appropriate given the greater weight transfer???
    3) #2 assumes that the CG height and wheel base are approximately the same, giving roughly the same proportion of weight transfer, or a bit more if better front grip.
    4) Can we assume that the factory properly sized the front and rear rotors to dissipate heat at the same rate, hence yielding the same temperature and coefficient of friction from the pads, (and thus, hopefully, yielding consistent braking).
    5) Did the factory undersize the rear caliper pistons, so the car would not swap ends, can the car be balanced with the F/R proportioning valve.


    I am operating on the following assumptions, (guestimates):

    a) The faster the car, (greater power to weight ratio), the greater the need for higher capacity discs.

    b) It wold be nice if the heat generating capability AND ability to dissipate heat were similar front and rear, so as to yield approximately the same temperature range and coefficient of friction from the pads. this has got to be a good thing as far as the drivers confidence in the car to decelerate consistently.

    c) It is preferable to use the same pad front and rear and to modify the mechanical bits to achieve effective and consistent retardation.

    d) The ease of ability to modulate the brakes at threshold braking is increased as disc diameter increases and is probably more important to lap time than a slight reduction in comfort or traction due to an increase in the unsprung weight.

    e) Brake component life has just got to be extended by not running perilously close to the max temp that the bits can handle, e.g. cracked discs and acelerated pad wear.

    f) Track times, (and fun) are likely to improve without the dreaded pad fade or mushy pedal from boiled brake fluid.


    Excellent braking is really important to me and i would greatly appreciate any input that would help with me to get slowed down.

    best,
    chris
     
  8. atlantaman

    atlantaman Formula 3

    Mar 31, 2002
    1,726
    Roswell, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Charles
    OK--this has been analized to death here----

    The 308 has VERY GOOD BALANCE from the factory to keep it from killing average drivers.

    The figures are about 1.7:1 front to rear braking bias in stock form.....

    The whole argument here is what kind of brakes to use--and that is pointless--use whatever you want---JUST KEEP THE BRAKE BIAS THE SAME!!!!

    If you upgrade the front--then do the backs too.

    You can either buy expensive kits or make your own.

    ME--I made my own and it was a long difficult job, even with an engineering degree, a machining/ fabricating/ racing background and a lot of very expensive and fancy equipment to work with.

    In the end you will find that larger rotors are the key to success. With 4-piston calipers, stock master cylinder, and 12.2" rotors you can close to double the braking capacity on your car. There is a reason the new cars have huge rotors--they are not there for looks---

    But use your common sense--this is engineered precision stuff here--and it is not cheap--either buy the expensive pre-engineered kit of have someone design something for you--- Why are the kits so expensive? --Over the next 10 years a manufacturer will be lucky to sell a couple dozen 308 kits. With 1,000 man hours in design and engineering, they have to charge an extra $1000/kit just to keep floating.
     
  9. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    13,196
    MO
    Well Charles, want to help a 328er make a kit using 322 or 330 (or even light weight 342 disks) and 4 pot calipers? (retaining parking brake) :)

    Trying to decide which calipers, but am looking at MOVit's with their large SA pads.
     
  10. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
    10,676
    Worldwide
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    Steven
    Agreed, and another reason i went with Brembo as they did their homework. It is also great that the designer of the system (Eric Dahl) is a wonderful person and truly helpful with advice on what to use for the REAR to balance it out. Eric knows which side of the brake pad to use :) (a take off of he knows which end of the soldering gun is hot, for those of us who are electrically-minded.
     
  11. Roryferrari

    Roryferrari Formula Junior

    Apr 28, 2004
    259
    San Jose
    Full Name:
    Dave Bell
    Omar, any progress on your front Brfembo kit? I received mine just before CI, however what was sent was for a 308. What kit number were you sent? I'ts been 2 weeks and I still haven't seen my replacement kit. I'm anxious to see if yours has been installed yet!

    Regards
     
  12. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    13,196
    MO
    I am under talks with Atlantaman on making a custom kit now...Brembo does not have anything nor do they think an yof their current applications will work on my abs hub 328...trust me I tired to convince them to at least let me try with no luck. :-/
     

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