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Discussion in '360/430' started by bumboola, Nov 30, 2003.
Comments from roadracers?
Great post!!! i've had my car out at gingerman and i've wondered how these other cars would fair. thanks.
Nice post. Interesting how they were even through Turn 10.
The Ford GT is 2 sec faster than the 360 CS and the GT3.
Wow that car is fast!
Thanks for the scan bumboola
I'd like to see the HP and weight stats.... do you guys have numbers for Ford GT? CS?
Such a big gap between Porsche and Ford in HP? Porsche is a 6 cylinder?
GT3_____1:34.15____$118,000____380hp____3.6 liter____3043 pounds
Dont get your hopes up yet, judging by the performance numbers the Gt posted, it is not your run of the mill Gt40. And if this is true, a real spec Gt40 would lose alot of its advantage on that track.
Now way will a 500hp, 3400pd car hit 100mph in 7.6 seconds, or better yet, 150mph in 16.9. Thats as fast as a Carrera Gt and Pagani Zonda.
You're both wrong. I told you last Aug. and it remains true today. The Ford GT (It's not a GT40) will have much more HP than people think. It may have as much as 650hp. The production spec car will be at least as fast as this one and it may be much faster. I know the guys who designed and built this car. I also know the guys who designed and built the GT40. These guys and these cars are the real deal.
why would a sports car costing $150,000+ list 500hp if it was as much 650hp?
James- I know there were several underpowered test mules running around with a 350hp Cobra S/C motor of 4.9 litre displacement... And that the 'spec car' would have "150 more hp"...
Bringing it up to 500.
But not 650.
If the production version has 650hp however, it's numbers are closer to reality.
An intresting situation. I wonder what Ford has up it's sleeve?
Is it true that Ferrari use to always give out fuzzy HP numbers?
Maybe over-state the numbers for the Magazines?
Are you saying Ford has the balls to understate the numbers?
Won't the stratigy fail once someone put their car on a Dyno?
There are several reasons. With a forced induction engine it's easy to make more HP. The only problem is will the engine stay together and for how long. Ford is testing the engine at various HP levels. They can make 650hp and if they're letting people test it at that level they must be feeling better about it's durability. To go that fast IMHO it's making more than 500hp. My MK-IV is that fast or faster and it only has 500HP but it weighs 2300lbs. That's why it goes 223. It's light and aero. They haven't listed final specs yet. When the production ones roll they will be very fast. Ford wouldn't let these out to testers unless the productions ones will be this fast. This car will raise the bar for Ferrari and Lambo at least as far as speed for under 300K goes.
You may want to wait on buying your Murcie. This one may be faster and less $.
I hope it does have 650hp, James. Living in the Detroit area and knowing many Ford employees, the GT is just what this company needs to boost their morale and the company's image. If it comes out with 500hp though, it wont run 128mph in the quarter mile. We'll soon find out. I'm sure your sources are a lot higher up than mine.
Mark, when Ford decides to go 'all out' on something, they will give it enough power to do what they want.
We shouldn't be surprised, really. They are celebrating their 100th anniversary. Would we expect Porsche or Ferrari to not do the same thing for their 100th anniversary? You better believe there will be a car to top the Enzo when Ferrari hits its golden 100th and the same goes for Porsche.
Magazine and test mule voodoo aside, what are you inclined to trust, info given to the press and test drivers, or insider info from somone much more deeply involved in the GT40 legacy/Ford GT development then any magazine or chatroom could hope to be?
The performance numbers are real. Understating the horsepower helps create a stir and cause the market rivals for this segment some anguish. The damage is already done, its only going to get worse if the power is vamped up beyond the level it is truly at, very possible with the chosen power plant.
Ford will stop at nothing to make sure the car is a success. Expect a lighter and faster Ford GT than the one tested. Jim implied in other posts the production Ford GT will be lighter. Less weight... now implied more power... if anything the performance figures might be understated for the production version. That is what prospective owners who were interviewed said. They don't just want more bhp then the competition, they want it to best the competition. THATS a scary thought if your Porsche or Ferrari.
Last Aug I posted that the head of this program had told me that their car was 5 seconds a lap faster than a stock 360 at Luguna. Now we're seeing it beat a CS by 2 seconds a lap at Gingerman. Knowing these guys I can't see why they'd let these numbers get published in mags, numbers reached by the mags, unless the production car will meet or beat them. If the production car is slower the people who bought it based on reading these tests would go nuclear.
Excellent point. People have to keep in mind, the Ford GT is being built on the same principles the NSX was built on. Its a 'because we can' dream car. Ford is celebrating a lot more then just advances in technology. It will accomplish the aim of being a 'talked about' car for years if not longer. Goal number one accomplished by boosting brand recognition. If they turn a profit from it, will they not build more? AFAIK, they can use the money. When Ford rings the dinner bell, there's going to be chaos in the 150k-300k market segment.
You call it chaos, I call it FUN!
Sorry James, but i disagree with you. The Gt has already been tested by 2 magazines, reporting production versions, and neither was anywhere near as quick as stated above. One article raced it against the Viper Srt and the Viper was faster. It will be 500hp and 3400pds. Good race for a Gallardo.
As for getting one over a Murcielago..... never. Not remotely a fan of the Ford. Id take a 360 Stradale over it.
In 1999, Ford's SVT Cobra was rated @ 317hp. The entire production run had problems attaining that number: most were actually around 270hp or so,not 317. This was first brought to light by C&D (may have been R&T).
Anyways, Ford took a big hit with the fiasco, had to recall all 99 Cobra's and install a new chip, intake manifold, and mufflers.
As a result, Ford has begun to underestimate their HP numbers. For example, the 2000 Cobra R was advertised at 385hp at the flywheel, but in reality the car had 380hp at the WHEELS. The same is true of the 2003 Cobra, which is rated at 390fwhp, but in reality has around 420fwhp.
It is not surprising, then, that SVE (the guys who designed the 1999, 2000, and 2003 Cobras) would again underestimate the GT's hp numbers.
What will be VERY interesting is a GT "race-only" car. Drop 1000lbs off the beast and you will have a track-only car that will kick just about everything else off the track.
Numbers don't lie. The Luguna #'s are real as well. For you, a true Lambo fan this car may not be for you just as for those who like F cars would prefer a CS and those who like P cars would buy a GT2. These are all great cars/different cars. Now I'll say something else. Look at the rev limit on the Ford. My Big block 427, which is a push rod can run at 7200 without any problem. This engine can IMHO and does in the Gingerman test make a lot more that 500hp and will in it's production form and stay together.
I'd take a naturally rated ANYTHING over a supercharged Ford GT. I just doubt the GT could hold up to the same punishment as a Porsche or Ferrari. Run that sucker hard all day long and I really think it would break.
Besides, could you imagine bringing your Ford GT to the local dealer for service, and having to wait in line behind some guy and his Ford Focus? It is always interesting to me when I observe Detroit manufacturers trying to compete in upper eschelon markets with their existing service infrastructure. I remember how I felt when having to deal with some local-yokal losers at the Chevy dealership when I used to take my ZR-1 in for service. They'd scratch their heads, and refer to their service manuals and in the mean time, not at all provide service even close to what you'd expect for a $70,000 car. Good luck with that Ford. Unless they have some special plans, there will be unhappy GT owners out there, just the same as there were some unhappy ZR-1 owners out there 10 years ago.