430 - Strange issue: slow down, e-diff, f1, suspension… | FerrariChat
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430 Strange issue: slow down, e-diff, f1, suspension…

Discussion in '360/430' started by pilam99, Aug 26, 2021.

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  1. pilam99

    pilam99 Rookie

    Jan 29, 2021
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    Mike
    #1 pilam99, Aug 26, 2021
    I have a new to me 2008 that I have been driving since July. It was serviced at Ferrari before I picked it up in Bordeaux and drove it home to NL over the course of three days. And since then with no issues.

    Day 1 of the issues: Drove it 200 km to Belgium and refueled from a low tank on. Shell 98, but I don’t know that I recognize the blend (not familiar with what is typical in BE and this was a small station with only choice of 95 vs. 98) before stopping at a grocery store. Came out of the grocery and started it and the warning screen first shows NO CST (was in sport mode), then E-Diff warning, and the red F1 warning light lit. I started driving away and the Slow Down amber came on and I pulled into a gas station and it was stuck in N. After about 2 minutes it beeped and all was OK. I did some research on this site and was looking at E-diff solenoid, bleed screw issues, etc.

    Day 2: Started the car, did not get errors but it seemed sluggish. Started driving and it was like the car was running on only 30% power, almost like driving with the e brake on or misfiring, but it was not hesitating like a misfire. More like the gas pedal only influenced the throttle for the first 20% of the pedal travel and then it was dead. Drove about 20km with the slow down Amber occasionally coming on and then clearing, but always sluggish. Eventually had to go up hill and stop at the top behind another car and could really feel the engine bog and then stall. Rolled backwards and backed off the road to wait a few minutes. Restarted, engine felt back to full power, but got the suspension warning. Car ran great the rest of the day. After parking, the suspension light cleared and continued without issue.

    Day 3: Normal but I kept it in Auto trans mode as I read some suggestions to do so in case of F1 issues.

    Day 4: Started, ran sluggish again, stalled at end of street, suspension warning on, restarted OK and ran OK but with the suspension warning on. But it seemed that it kept forcing itself into Auto trans mode and flash the auto light when I would start shifting, though it would let me shift. Drove 100 km. Refueled on Total Excellium 98. On restart, the suspension warning stayed on but after shut down to get some lunch the warning cleared and it has been fine. Kept it in auto mode.

    I can’t figure out the relationship between the sluggish running and the suspension warning. It is very clear that the engine performance completely changes for the better when the suspension warning comes on. Any thoughts? Saturday I will drive again and test how it reacts when I start shifting. I’m hesitant to mess with a working car until I am back close to home.
     
  2. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    6,890
    Central NJ
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    Dominick
    #2 flash32, Aug 26, 2021
    Check error codes stored

    Check voltage / battery health

    Do that first and then we can go from there

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     
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  3. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
    39,159
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    Terry H Phillips
    #3 tazandjan, Aug 26, 2021
    Dominick- Yup, sure sounds like a duff battery.
     
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  4. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,951
    Isle of man- uk
    #4 mike32, Aug 27, 2021
    Looks like battery is past its best, connect a voltmeter and press the starter, see how far the voltage drops when the starter engages.
     
  5. one4torque

    one4torque F1 Veteran
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    #5 one4torque, Aug 27, 2021
    Sounds like car is going into a limp mode.

    don’t drive it like this


    Get codes and go from there.

    hopefully something simple
     
  6. Extreme1

    Extreme1 Formula 3

    Jun 27, 2017
    1,421
    Santa Clarita, CA
    #6 Extreme1, Aug 27, 2021
    pilaf, I would take flash32’s advice. He’s helped me a couple of times.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  7. Extreme1

    Extreme1 Formula 3

    Jun 27, 2017
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    #7 Extreme1, Aug 27, 2021
  8. the_dan

    the_dan Karting
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    Nov 6, 2016
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    Hong Kong
    #8 the_dan, Aug 28, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2021
    Definitely start with the battery and error codes, these cars tend to come over all hypochondriac with a low battery. My friend had something similar with his 430.


    Just thinking about it logically, while these cars aren’t Toyota reliable, your E-diff, F1 and suspension aren’t going to all fail at once.

    I doubt it’s the fuel either, it’s likely just because the re start on a low battery after shut off for re-fuelling triggers a cascade of warnings.

    I’d be minded not to drive it until you check the battery voltage first and replace it if needed, just in case it is something more serious.
     
  9. brogenville

    brogenville Formula 3
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    #9 brogenville, Aug 28, 2021
    There are interdependencies between these and other modules. If one of them goes dark for example, others that rely on talking to that module will trigger a fault as well even though there’s nothing actually wrong with those modules.

    As ever we need the codes to help make a diagnosis.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
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  10. Gillis Haasnoot

    Gillis Haasnoot Karting

    Feb 4, 2020
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    Leiden, Netherlands
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    #10 Gillis Haasnoot, Aug 28, 2021
    I tank various fuel in NL and Belgium all the time. Including E10, 95 and 98. Never have any issues. +20k km last year driving.
    Start with the battery and codes. Check pump as well. Probably a minor issue.
     
  11. pilam99

    pilam99 Rookie

    Jan 29, 2021
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    #11 pilam99, Aug 29, 2021
    With the ignition off, battery is at 12.3V, during start it drops to 9-10 and then to 14.0 with the engine running. Is this normal or is 12.3 low?

    Day 5 didn't use the car, day 6&7 ran perfectly, fyi. I don't yet have an OBD reader to pull codes. Sounds like time to get one...
     
  12. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
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    #12 flash32, Aug 29, 2021
    I want to jump.and say battery based on measurements but let's charge it up with the tender for a full night (let's see if the indicator lights on charger make it to"full" charge) and then remeasure

    Heat /long trip and a weak battery definitely can cause this

    How many years have you had the battery ? Do you know what type of battery you have in your vehicle ?



    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     
  13. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,951
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    #13 mike32, Aug 30, 2021
    If it is dropping to 9 v, it is a bit low
     
  14. Snapshift

    Snapshift Formula Junior
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    #14 Snapshift, Aug 30, 2021
    12.3V resting is pretty low charge for a 12V AGM battery less than 50% roughly. (12.9 V = 100% charge) In my experience the ECU's and all related computers on the CAN bus lose their programming and throw a multitude of codes at under 10.5-11 volts which occurs when cranking his car.

    One will have to get a new battery if the present one can't be fully charged and restored to full capacity if that is the case. In my case, until I installed a new battery with full capacity I continually got error codes because of the voltage drop when cranking engine.
     
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  15. pilam99

    pilam99 Rookie

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    #15 pilam99, Aug 30, 2021
    Thanks for the feedback so far! I have the battery out and on a charger/tester now. Will get an OBD scanner tomorrow to investigate the other piece of the puzzle.
     
  16. pilam99

    pilam99 Rookie

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    #16 pilam99, Aug 30, 2021
  17. Snapshift

    Snapshift Formula Junior
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    #17 Snapshift, Aug 30, 2021
    Is it a wet cell lead acid battery or an AGM absorbed Glass Mat type? Id say that it is probably due for replacement. After eliminating that problem for sure, then you can concentrate on the real error codes rather than the spurious ones generated by the ECU's at startup. Is is unbelievable how sensitive these cars are to weak or undercharged batteries and the plethora of problems they cause.
     
  18. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
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    #18 flash32, Aug 30, 2021
    I would agree

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  19. pilam99

    pilam99 Rookie

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    #19 pilam99, Aug 30, 2021
    S
    sealed wet cell, I think. You can hear liquid sloshing around.
     
  20. Snapshift

    Snapshift Formula Junior
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    #20 Snapshift, Aug 30, 2021
    Looks like it is an older sealed wet cell of indeterminate age. Probably sulfated. Start looking for AGM replacements. It appears that is was the right AH battery for a F430. My new one is 70 AH AGM H6 size.
     
  21. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
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    #21 mike32, Aug 31, 2021
    Does the battery fill the space, just in case someone has fitted a physically smaller battery
     
  22. pilam99

    pilam99 Rookie

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    #22 pilam99, Sep 3, 2021
    So I replaced the batter with a Bosch S5. Old battery was able to charge up to 12.5V, Bosch to 13.1. At least now the battery itself should not be suspect.

    Car seems to run fine. I did get an OBD II scanner, ran the OBD II and Ferrari specific diagnostics and found many faults but I cannot find the timing and sequence so it is impossible to tell what caused what. Is that normal? Do you have to just clear and wait for something to trigger and catch it?

    So I tried to clear all the codes and everything cleared OK except the immobilizer. Fault files are attached here.
     

    Attached Files:

  23. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,951
    Isle of man- uk
    #23 mike32, Sep 3, 2021
    You have a copy of the codes and the car runs fine, i would clear the codes and start with a clean sheet , see if any return.
     
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