Strange no crank/no start condition on the 355. Ideas? | FerrariChat

Strange no crank/no start condition on the 355. Ideas?

Discussion in '348/355' started by ketel, May 6, 2020.

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  1. ketel

    ketel Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
    1,355
    Sausalito, CA
    Gents,

    Here's the latest:

    Drove the '97 355 on Sunday. Did a nice 60 mile round trip run to the Autozone to pick up items for the service I'm doing to help resolve the hesitation problems I've been having under power which I posted about earlier. No problems this time other than the hesitation. The next day, I turned the key and the starter engaged for a split second and then all I would hear was click-click-click. With the lights flashing in unison. No crank. Battery is new, so that's not it.

    Today, I tried again. This time, the battery was totally dead. I hooked up my battery charger/jumper pack and tried the key again. I got the click-click-click-click like the other day, although this time the starter never engaged. Lights flashed in the cockpit in unison with the clicking.

    So, I know my starter has been finicky for a while, so I'm guessing maybe it's finally given up the ghost. But, I'm puzzled with the battery being totally flat when it's brand new and I just drove it the other day.

    Thoughts from the brain trust? What should I try first? Thanks guys,

    ketel
     
  2. Kokose7en

    Kokose7en Karting

    Dec 5, 2019
    209
    SF Bay Area
    Possible dead/dying alternator. You drove the car with good battery on that Sunday. Low/no output alternator caused good battery to, just enough, run on its own power for the day. Next day/start, the battery did not have enough to turn the engine. Battery is now too low of charge. Not fully dead, But possibly around 10v or so. Which will still be enough voltage to light some instrumentation.

    My guess.
     
  3. ketel

    ketel Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
    1,355
    Sausalito, CA
    Interesting theory but if it was an alternator issue, then once the vehicle was connected to an external battery charger/jumper it should crank and fire up, would it not?

    ketel
     
  4. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 18, 2008
    6,016
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
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    Grant
    Ketell charge the batter for12 hours on a charger not maintainer
    Buy a 10 dollar cig lighter voltage checker and once battery is charged, if it starts then check voltage while it’s running
     
    308 GTB likes this.
  5. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 18, 2008
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    If the battery is old it may not take a charge,
    If it’s hooked to another battery jumping the original it still may not be seeing enough voltage.

    if you recall your not supposed to boost our cars because it can screw up you airbag module which is not cheap
     
    308 GTB and Kokose7en like this.
  6. 308 GTB

    308 GTB F1 World Champ
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    Feb 7, 2002
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    Barry Wolinsky
  7. Kokose7en

    Kokose7en Karting

    Dec 5, 2019
    209
    SF Bay Area
    In theory, yes. Having an external power source to replace/supply insufficient amperage in the cars battery to start the engine. And if it succeeds, could possibly prove a dead battery would be a cause of a no start concern. Why the battery died, that’s up for diagnosis.

    problem is. When testing with a jumper/charger. Is the jumper sufficient enough to crank. Are the clamps correctly clamped to clean terminals. Are they clamped at the right locations for jumping. if using a battery charger, You definitely can’t start the car right away without letting the charger sit for a while to let it charge up the battery.

    To keep it simple. you could quickly do a static voltage test on the battery. Just get a volt meter to check. Anything less than 12v static is considered dead. In your case. If the engine doesn’t even turn but you still have lights on. Should be seeing 8 To 11v Static. If voltage is 12.4-12.6v I would consider the battery to have sufficient pressure/voltage. But a load test (carbon pile test) would be needed to test it’s cca rating. As it is possible for batteries to have sufficient voltage but as soon as there is load, voltage drops.
     
  8. Kokose7en

    Kokose7en Karting

    Dec 5, 2019
    209
    SF Bay Area
    I definitely agree, I recommend not to jump these cars. Safest way to charge or replace battery if needed. Test static voltage first, easiest one to do. That cigarette lighter one is a good way or just a DVOM.
     
  9. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 18, 2008
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    I would not jumpier your car without using the 11 dollar tester Barry showed. It’s way better than the 10 dollar one by the look of it.

    when my battery is fresh it never goes below 12.4 when cranking. Battery Starts at 13.2 I think but been a long winter
     
  10. ketel

    ketel Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
    1,355
    Sausalito, CA
    The battery is brand new

    ketel
     
  11. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    Ian Riddell
    Can you describe the actual charger/jumper you are using? I thought they were either one or the other? You can't start a car using only a charger if your battery is flat.

    The bad alternator theory is possible, but it seems odd to me that there were no symptoms, such as an alternator warning light, on your 60 mile drive.

    What did you buy at Autozone for your hesitation problems?

    Why did you change the battery? Did you change it yourself?
     
  12. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 18, 2008
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    As I said before and others we need to know what your battery voltage is before cranking and during
     
  13. ketel

    ketel Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
    1,355
    Sausalito, CA
    I decided to do a full annual service, so new plugs, fuel filter, etc. I figured the 355 needs it anyway so hoping it might be that simple - i.e., clogged/old fuel filter or old/fouled plugs. If I still have hesitation issues, then clearly I will need to go deeper

    I changed it because the old battery - which was only 3 years old, btw - was not holding a charge. Yelcab and I decided to get a new one and put it in. That was in February.

    ketel
     
  14. ketel

    ketel Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
    1,355
    Sausalito, CA
    May 8 update -

    As suggested by some of you, last night I connected the battery charger/jumper pack to the posts in the engine bay (I did not connect directly to the battery since it's a ***** to access. I hope connecting to the engine bay access points is sufficient. Advise if not).

    This morning, after 14+ hours on the charger, the charger was drained and - wait for it - the 355 was still dead. Like doornail dead. No lights, no buzz, nada.

    So...my plan of attack is to pull the battery entirely and connect it to a bench charger. Then once fully charged I will re-install and run a parasitic battery drain test.

    Other ideas?

    ketel
     
  15. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    Jul 28, 2018
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    Eric
    Just a thought, I had a car that did this. It turned out that when I did work on the front and put the inter cooler and front bumper back, I pinched the horn wire and it was grounding to the chassis and draining the battery in 2 days. No amount of charging prevented it. It worked before I did the work so I went back and pulled it apart and there it was. If you did any work double check that first is all I am saying. If no work was done then disregard.
     
  16. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    Measure the battery voltage with a volt meter. If it's under 12 V the battery is shot. If over 12V, take the battery to NAPA or Autozone or whoever and have it load tested.
     
  17. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Sounds good. That kills several birds with one stone.

    3 years for a battery is crazy. Is it an Ultima?
     
  18. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    Dec 22, 2011
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    As suggested, first check the voltage of the battery after charging, Better to disconnect the battery while charging and check the voltage not immediately but some half an hour after you have disconnected the charger. If it is about 12.5 -12.8 volt, and you still cannot crank the engine, I would first check the battery cable connections, clean the inside of the battery clamps, check the negative battery cable connection to the body and to the engine etc.
     
  19. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,142
    socal
    You can buy a new bad battery.

    Pull battery charge with real charger not a trickle. Charge overnight.

    Battery should read 12.45v but more like 12.6 in the morning. Anything less than 12.45 take it back to battery store get new one.

    With 12.45+v start car. Then see if alternator works produucing about 14v+ at battery + to ground. Report back here
     
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  20. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 18, 2008
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    You sure your battery disconnect is working properly.
     
  21. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    John Kreskovsky
    A battery with 12.20V is still over 50% charged and should be able to start a car, if the battery is good and just low. My 308 has not problem starting every spring with that level of charge. Going back to original post, "starter engaged for a split second and then all I would hear was click-click-click" is classic bad battery. I wouldn't be looking any further until that was confirmed one way or the other. Everything else is a waste of time until the battery is tested properly.
     

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