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Strange powder coat experience

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by FasterIsBetter, Jul 31, 2005.

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  1. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2004
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    NoNJ/Jupiter FL
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    Steve W.
    #1 FasterIsBetter, Jul 31, 2005
    Just got back from the FCA Empire Division weekend at Lime Rock. Had a great time with the Mondi. With the Porterfield R4-S brake pads, a Kirkey racing seat, and a set of Kumho Victoracers, the car performed superbly on the track. I turned some great times and was overall very pleased.

    But on the afternoon of the second day, something strange happened. Toward the end of the third session of the day (I'd run 6 sessions on Friday), I looked in the rear view mirror and saw white smoke pouring from the engine compartment. Fearing a blown gasket or engine fire, I immediately pulled of the track, popped the engine cover as a corner worker raced over with an extinguisher. By the time he got there, the smoke as gone. We looked things over, could not see the source of the smoke. Got a tow in to the pits, checked the engine over, and saw nothing.

    The collective suspicion was I'd blown out some anti-freeze onto the exhaust and that's what I saw. But the engine was not running hot (stayed right on 90 deg. the whole time). Next session, went back out, and after a couple of laps, I started to see the smoke again, so back to the pits. We could find nothing. Next session, repeated the same thing. Back in the pits, a friend was checking things out and noticed that most of the black powder coating (assume that's what the coating was) on my new ANSA exhaust pipes and a good portion of the muffler had turned to white, loose powder. Since there were no engine leaks whatsoever and not other source of the smoke, we surmised it was the powder coating burning off or turning to powder and blowing off.

    Has anyone experienced this with an ANSA or other exhaust system? I find it hard to believe that ANSA or any other company would use a coating that would degrade like that, but it sure did. Any thoughts on what might have caused this would be appreciated.

    Regards,
    Steve
     
  2. dgrperformance

    dgrperformance Formula Junior

    Feb 28, 2005
    311
    Oceanside, CA
    #2 dgrperformance, Jul 31, 2005
    I have had the same experience with several different coating systems no matter the temperature ratings and promises by the company . Especialy if the system is new and this is the first heat cycle. I can't say that any are bullet proof except for stainless or Inconel.

    I would also check the mixture and make sure you are not leaning out at revs. A lean running engine can really raise exhaust system temperatures dramatically.

    Exhaust leaks at or near the head can also let cold air in the system which reacts with the unburned fuel and also raises exhaust temps

    If you still have cats on the car you may to make sure the paint didn't burn off and clog the membrane or you will be buying some pretty pricey parts in the future

    Zac
     
  3. rivee

    rivee F1 Rookie

    Jan 20, 2002
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    #3 rivee, Jul 31, 2005
    When I rebuilt my motor a few years ago, I made the mistake of powder coating the headers and exhaust. Guess what? It all burned off in the first 15 minutes and left a white powder on everything
     
  4. ham308

    ham308 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    358
    NE Switzerland
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    Richard Ham
    #4 ham308, Aug 1, 2005
    A friend's 328 suffered from this going flat out on a German autobahn. When running at full power for any length of time it smoked in a most alarming manner. There were no lasting effects and a welll respected F garage thought it was collected oil being burnt off in the catalysts.

    Still heart stopping though...
     
  5. Air_Cooled_Nut

    Air_Cooled_Nut Formula Junior

    Nov 25, 2004
    952
    Portland, Oregon
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    Toby Erkson
    #5 Air_Cooled_Nut, Aug 1, 2005
    Uh, powder coating isn't meant for exhausts! It requires heat to bake the powder on to the surface at temps below 500º...so imagine what happens when it's put on HOT EXHAUSTS ;) You might as well simply spray paint the exhaust with Rustoleum :p

    Exhaust systems should be ceramic coated or left bare. Personally, I'm surprised the mechanic/painter actually let you do this without a warning. We inform our customers about the differences.
     
  6. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 30, 2003
    18,130
    Savannah
    #6 thecarreaper, Aug 1, 2005
    i had a local business ruin a set of original, date coded steel 1970 Z28 wheels. they got them too hot and they were warped. they looked beautiful, but wobbled like mad. they are now not in business anymore. :)
     
  7. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2004
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    #7 FasterIsBetter, Aug 1, 2005
    Toby,

    The coating on the exhaust was the original coating put on by ANSA. I had assumed it was powder coating, but could just be some kind of high temperature paint (obviously, not high enough). I suspect that whatever was put on simply wasn't up to the job. It was fine under normal street use, but when I was on the track this weekend, I was pushing the car really hard, a lot of full throttle.

    Someone suggested checking to see if it was running lean at full throttle, which I'm going to try to do. I'm not sure if the Bosch mechanical FI can be adjusted to compensate for that. Any suggestions on adjustment would be appreciated.
     
  8. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 29, 2001
    18,055
    USA
    #8 f355spider, Aug 1, 2005
    The paint is like not powder coating, but just high temp paint.

    I would definitely have the engine checked, as it would seem it may be running to hot/lean. You will need to take it to a shop with a chassis dynometer and a sniffer to check your exhaust (pre-cat), while running up to redline.
     
  9. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
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    Feb 24, 2002
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    Robert Garven
    #9 robertgarven, Aug 2, 2005
    if you have cats I think some ansas were made for the euro cars without them which run ant greatly reduced temps. Just a thought?
     
  10. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

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    #10 FasterIsBetter, Aug 2, 2005
    It's a Euro car. No cats.
     
  11. Air_Cooled_Nut

    Air_Cooled_Nut Formula Junior

    Nov 25, 2004
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    Toby Erkson
    #11 Air_Cooled_Nut, Aug 3, 2005
    Ah, gotcha! Prolly just paint to make it look purdy and, if that's the case, the white smoke is typical and the paint will burn off and the smoking will stop. Of course, the exhaust will be bare metal for all practical purposes.
     
  12. rivee

    rivee F1 Rookie

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    #12 rivee, Aug 3, 2005
    Yeah, I know that now. I powder coated them myself, but live and learn eh?

    It didn't hurt anything and it wasn't a big deal after all the smoke cleared. Just some white powder left.
     
  13. ham308

    ham308 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
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    Richard Ham
    #13 ham308, Aug 4, 2005
    It's surprising that you can get enough smoke off some exhaust pipe coating to be that noticable, ie. several times and enough to get a marshall to race across with a fire extinquisher.

    Keep us posted if the problem is solved when you get back on the track.

    good luck
     
  14. Air_Cooled_Nut

    Air_Cooled_Nut Formula Junior

    Nov 25, 2004
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    Toby Erkson
    #14 Air_Cooled_Nut, Aug 5, 2005
    Not in my experience; actually quite common with new exhausts.
     
  15. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

    Aug 8, 2002
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    #15 ferraridriver, Aug 5, 2005
    For ceramic header and exhaust coating I've found HPC to be the best. They have done several race car headers and complete exhaust systems for me, and there have been no problems.

    http://www.hpcoatings.com/
     
  16. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2004
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    #16 FasterIsBetter, Aug 5, 2005
    Dave,

    On the exhaust manifolds on my old Jaguars, I've used Jet-Hot. (www.jet-hot.com) You send them the manifolds and they prep and coat them. Excellent product and holds up really well. If I ever have to pull the manifolds on the Mondi, I would definitely have them Jet-Hot coated.

    Regards,
    Steve
     
  17. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

    Aug 8, 2002
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    #17 ferraridriver, Aug 5, 2005
    I had a set of race car headers done by Jet-Hot once, the coating bubbled, then I found HPC, no problems since and they were not as expensive as Jet-Hot.
    All the headers I make are 321 and 306 stainless, coated inside and out. They look as good now after 50 races as the day I got them back from HPC.
     

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