News

Stratos induction system on 246GT

Discussion in '206/246' started by Pantdino, Aug 28, 2005.

  1. ODDY

    ODDY Rookie

    May 7, 2013
    17
    I will post some images next week. The dyno my tuner uses showed a reading for my engine in standard tune of just 140 hp! With the fuel injection and coil on plug ignition it rose to 150hp.The installation of the supercharger increased the hp to 250 at rev limited 7200 rpm.This is an 80% increase from standard.Basically the alternator is relocated and the supercharger sits in its place.I took this route to more power because of concerns about putting things back to "original"
     
  2. racerboy9

    racerboy9 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,822
    The shop in Italy that built my 24-valve Stratos motor put this one together for me. 44 DCNF carbs, CPS pistons, big valves, different cam grind, light weight flywheel. Before they started on it they thought they would only get ~225 hp but ended up with 252! I will probably lose some going through my Tubi exhaust and stock air cleaner. The gearbox has nine sets of transfer gears available.
     
  3. Pantdino

    Pantdino Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2004
    2,069
    Full Name:
    Jim
    #78 Pantdino, May 2, 2014
    Last edited: May 2, 2014
    I assume the 140 was rear wheel HP on a chassis dyno?
    What was the cost for the fuel injection and coil on plug ignition that resulted in a 10 hp gain?

    Was the 250 also on the chassis dyno, or was that on an engine dyno?
     
  4. Pantdino

    Pantdino Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2004
    2,069
    Full Name:
    Jim
    My air cleaner has a fairly thick alloy baseplate and Lexan cover, fairly tall velocity stacks, and nuts that stick up above the cover.

    If I mounted a thin tray with short stacks and no cleaner I could probably return my engine cover to stock.

    But my understanding is that no air filter = short engine life. No?
     
  5. Pantdino

    Pantdino Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2004
    2,069
    Full Name:
    Jim
    #80 Pantdino, May 2, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  6. rosso corsa motorsport

    rosso corsa motorsport Formula Junior

    Nov 30, 2008
    268
    good you did get more than 100 hp per liter, i guess you have 13:1 in compression
     
  7. swift53

    swift53 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 17, 2007
    4,473
    E.S.
    Full Name:
    Alberto
    Are the different sets of transfer gears still available, or were yours a custom commission?

    Regards, Alberto
     
  8. racerboy9

    racerboy9 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,822
    My gears are NOS. I've heard they have been remade but you need the main shaft, input shaft and deeper transfer gear cover. The middle gear is a double gear. There was talk of remaking all the comp gearbox parts but I don't know if this has happened. I think you can get straight cut gearbox internals now. Lancia made straight cut gears but they were troublesome. It might be Colotti that has remade the straight cut gears and they are supposed to be much better.
     
  9. ODDY

    ODDY Rookie

    May 7, 2013
    17
    As everyone knows dyno's are generally only accurate for comparison and all the readings were taken on the same chassis dyno. The decision to fit the supercharger came first-blowing through a brace of old Webers and getting fueling right didn't seem an option, much easier with an ECU and injection hence the Motec and injection. Once you have the Motec it makes sense to take the troublesome distributor out of the timing equation. (I have had my Dino for 36 years and been through a few rebuilds and modifications including distributor rebuilds and replacement)
    The Motec controls the timing through a Nissan camshaft position sensor mounted in place of the distributor and the coils are GM. The cost of just doing the fuel injection and ignition I don't know, all up, labour, CNC,fabrication and parts was around $20,000.00 Aus.
     
  10. 4CamGT

    4CamGT Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 23, 2004
    2,131
    Southern California
    Any photos?

    Freeman
     
  11. 4CamGT

    4CamGT Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 23, 2004
    2,131
    Southern California
    I am intrigued by the idea of trying a Stratos setup on a Dino. I would like to explore if it's possible to fit without modifying the engine lid. Does anyone know where to find a Stratos induction manifold for the Weber 40IDF carbs. The carbs seem readily available.

    Freeman
     
  12. racerboy9

    racerboy9 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,822
    I have the complete setup for both road and race but can't let them go. Could send some pics. The road car version have the carbs setting perpendicular to the engine like the Dino. The race car versions have a longer intake runner and the carbs are set at oblique angle to the engine. You can Google for pictures to see the difference. You might try Roberto Cassetta at home page Lancia Stratos. He has reproduced many items for the Stratos and he speaks English very well if you can get him on the phone. Usually pretty responsive to emails.
     
  13. 4CamGT

    4CamGT Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 23, 2004
    2,131
    Southern California
    On the road car setup, do you think with short velocity stacks the assembly will fit under a stock engine lid?

    Freeman
     
  14. racerboy9

    racerboy9 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,822
    I can put the road car setup on a spare block and give the total height if that would work for you. You would then have to compare to your engine to see how much room is left. The Stratos manifold and carbs alone would probably not make enough of a difference for all the hassle and money. The whole engine would need to be uprated.
     
  15. abstamaria

    abstamaria F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2006
    2,596
    Full Name:
    Andres
    All quite amazing, Racerboy.

    Andy
     
  16. 4CamGT

    4CamGT Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 23, 2004
    2,131
    Southern California
    If the Dino motor is stock and only the Stratos Weber 40IDF's and induction manifold were used, what do you think would be the improvements over the stock Dino 40 DCNF's?

    I'm hoping the Stratos assembly with a modified stock Dino air plenum will fit under a stock Dino engine lid. I contacted Roberto Cassetta. He responded right back with different options.

    I like the idea that the Stratos through racing further developed and solved the issues of the Dino induction system and it's a reversible modification.

    I would love to hear more objective thoughts and real experiences with Dinos modified with the Stratos induction system.

    Freeman
     
  17. JCR

    JCR F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 14, 2005
    6,021
    H-Town, Tejas
    This has been covered in previous threads on this subforum by the Swiss member "Stratos".
    He said the manifolds were available in both aluminum and magnesium. A panel beater will have to modify or just make a new lid with a larger hump. He posted the photos in the earlier threads.
     
  18. 4CamGT

    4CamGT Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 23, 2004
    2,131
    Southern California
    #93 4CamGT, Oct 1, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2014
    Very little accurate detail on this subject. Roberto Cassetta http://www.lancia-stratos.com/ replied to my email and was very helpful. He has many Stratos parts available. Good fortune from another source came my way and I now have an NOS factory Stratos road car Weber 40IDF's with NOS induction manifold on my workbench. The complete assembly has never been used or mounted. I have been taking and comparing measurements. It would be invaluable for me to know from those that have actual experience with the installation. My goal is to fabricate a stock style airbox (thinner?) and not modify anything that isn't reversible. I will freely share anything I learn.

    Freeman
     
  19. racerboy9

    racerboy9 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,822
    #94 racerboy9, Oct 1, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  20. 4CamGT

    4CamGT Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 23, 2004
    2,131
    Southern California
    #95 4CamGT, Oct 1, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2014
    Thank You! Now we're learning! I truly appreciate you taking the measurements! Looks like the Stratos assembly is 45mm taller than the Dino assembly in height?

    Freeman
     
  21. Pantdino

    Pantdino Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2004
    2,069
    Full Name:
    Jim
    I think if it were possible to use IDFs under the stock engine cover Ferrari would have done that.

    My understanding is the longer intake tract gives you more low and midrange torque, and the IDFs do not give you the left turn fuel starvation that DCNFs do.

    My car had it's Stratos system when I got it and while I have the parts to convert to stock I haven't because I like having a car that's not exactly like everyone else's. But I'm not sure it would be worth doing if all you want is more horsepower.

    Jim
     
  22. 4CamGT

    4CamGT Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 23, 2004
    2,131
    Southern California
    Jim,

    My goal isn't horsepower. Since it's a bolt on assembly I want to experience the difference in overall drivability. I have a bit more work to do with my stock Dino DCNF assembly to get the most out of it. After that, I'll trial fit the Stratos IDF assembly. I'll know more about how much free space is left between the stock engine lid and the Stratos carbs once I do that. I notice the road spec Stratos has no velocity stacks inside the very thin airbox. I won't modify any of my original parts. I would love to see your Dino in person and study it.

    Freeman
     
  23. Pantdino

    Pantdino Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2004
    2,069
    Full Name:
    Jim
    I currently plan to take the car to the Ferrari NA 60th event in Beverly Hills on Oct 12. Otherwise I live in Cerritos and you can see it any time.

    How thin was the air box? The question is whether it allowed enough space for adequate flow to the carbs furthest from the entrance. But I suppose Lancia / Ferrari would have considered that. :)
     
  24. 4CamGT

    4CamGT Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 23, 2004
    2,131
    Southern California
    Jim,

    Thanks for your post and offer. This is what F-Chat is about! From what I can see so far, the carb/manifold assembly is a simple reversible bolt in replacement to the Dino assembly. Once we have the Stratos assembly in, we'll confirm how much space is left between the carb and stock engine lid. I have some ideas I want to mock up. Seeing how thin the Stratos air filter box is gives me encouragement it will work. I won't do anything to my Dino that isn't simple bolt on, bolt off, visually stock from the outside and reversible. My thought is, why not take advantage of the Ferrari F2/Stratos engine/gearbox upgrades that make it a better, safer and more fun Dino?

    Freeman
     
  25. racerboy9

    racerboy9 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,822
    I think you would have more fun building up a spare hot rod Dino motor, dyno it and drop it in your car than messing with your original engine.
     

Share This Page