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Stratos induction system on 246GT

Discussion in '206/246' started by Pantdino, Aug 28, 2005.

  1. Pantdino4

    Pantdino4 Karting

    Sep 17, 2015
    143
    It looks really nice! What air filter element is that?

    Do you plan to bring hoses in from the air inlets in the sides to try to keep the intake air a little cooler? The only advantage of having a separate, raised cover is that it will keep things a bit cooler in there.

    Jim Oddie
     
  2. 4CamGT

    4CamGT Formula 3
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    #177 4CamGT, Oct 16, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Jim,

    It's a 308/Stratos (same filter) filter element. So far no issues with getting cool air to the unit. I am directing cool air from the left side air intake and Simon and I will be creating ducts that direct cool air from the deck lid vent holes. What you see in the photo are the hand made aluminum parts to the air box. It looks simple but lots of development and hours to package everything below the stock deck lid and clear all the hardware. We still have some final development but we feel really good with the result so far. You've had your Stratos induction on your Dino for quite awhile. You know what it feels like. To go from the DCNF's to the IDF's is a huge improvement. They unleash more of the Dino's God given potential and makes it much more drivable and fun. I believe if Ferrari would have done this in the beginning there would have been more Dinos in competition and there wouldn't be threads on fuel starvation around corners. BTW, the sound with the air box is the same as without, in other words...fantastic!!!


    Freeman
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  3. 4CamGT

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    #178 4CamGT, Oct 16, 2016
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  4. Telaio

    Telaio Karting

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    Very clever .......... a job well planned and executed, you will have fun I'm sure !!!!! cheers all, Kev.
     
  5. DinoLasse

    DinoLasse Formula Junior
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    Excellent work, Freeman. Looks really good. That air box requires some serious metalworking skills, though, with its curved bottom plate dropping to a plane well below the mounting surface. Probably not inexpensive to fabricate, but a really clever design. I wonder why nobody thought of that before?

    Back in the days when the Stratos carb conversion was in vogue, some Dino owners here in Scandinavia tried to make air boxes for them, but they always had clearance problems. In particular, they found that the air box would dent the engine lid when the engine rocked back and forth during hard driving. That should not be a problem with this CAD designed airbox.
    Congratulations on what appears to be a very successful solution to an old problem!

    Lars
     
  6. nis1973

    nis1973 Formula Junior

    Jan 19, 2013
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    I've never driven a Dino but a stratos at 6-7,000RPM is AWESOME!
     
  7. 4CamGT

    4CamGT Formula 3
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    #182 4CamGT, Oct 17, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2016
    Lars,

    Thank you. As much as we started with CAD to get an idea what we had to work with, the mock-ups and actual fabrication to validate and modify was really important and necessary. There's still more to do. Nothing replaces actual testing. Who knows? Maybe I will get contact to the deck lid under hard cornering? We're getting the air box as low as possible and looking for all options for maximum clearance. My Dino isn't restored. It still has all the dings it had when I bought it. This way, if there is an issue, we'll see it, solve it and fix it. I wish we could see all these previous conversions so we could learn. For us, this development was beginning from zero.

    Simon and I are having a blast with this! Simon is planning on doing the same to his Dino.

    Freeman
     
  8. 4CamGT

    4CamGT Formula 3
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    Thanks Kevin!!
     
  9. Pantdino4

    Pantdino4 Karting

    Sep 17, 2015
    143
    I bought the car like this in 1987 and have never actually even ridden in a stock car, so I have no direct comparison. But I certainly love the sound and performance!

    What is the surface area of the air filter element? Height of filter element exposed, length, width?

    It looks thinner than the one I use, so maybe I could use a thinner element and still have enough flow capacity. That appears to be a K+N unit, no?

    Jim
     
  10. 4CamGT

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    #185 4CamGT, Oct 18, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Jim,

    Yes, it's a K&N unit. Here's the specs: K&N E-2930 Replacement Air Filter, Replacement Filters

    Take into consideration that the unit has a rubber lip top and bottom. It was originally spec'd for the Stratos before the 308 so seems to have plenty of flow. The Stratos Stradale didn't use velocity stacks inside the housing. They used special radiused plates (see #160 on this thread from Chris) and concave dimples on the top to increase flow. Right now we don't have either but it runs great. We'll eventually install similar plates and make a second top with dimples to test to see if there's a difference. Also note, the Stratos took air in from the engine compartment.


    Freeman
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  11. DinoLasse

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    Freeman,

    True, CAD drawings can only predict so much, and you would need accurate drawings of the rest of the car to get the full benefits of the technology. And even if such drawings existed somewhere, they would not be very useful, due to the unit-to-unit variations in a hand-built car like the Dino.

    I do not think that the movement during hard cornering is of concern for clearance considerations. The movement I referred to was this (and please forgive me if I am stating the obvious here):

    In a transverse engine configuration, the torque reaction tries to rotate the engine around the drive shaft axis. During hard acceleration in first gear, for example, the Dino engine tries to rotate backwards. It does so by compressing the rubber engine mounts on the rear side of the engine, and stretching them on the front side. Conversely, on an abrupt down-shift (without proper rev matching), the engine tries to rotate forwards. How big this movement is, I don't think anybody knows. But I believe that was what caused the contact with the engine lids in those previous attempts with air boxes.
    This type of rotating (as viewed from the side) movement could be simulated on a CAD system by entering the distance to the drive shafts and rocking the image around that pivot point. It would clearly show how many degrees of rotation could be allowed before contact is made.

    With your design, that clearance should not be too much of a problem, since the air box sits so much lower. I just wanted to point it out as something to keep an eye on.

    In any case, a really neat project, very professionally executed. And it is a real joy to see what a craftsman/artist like Simon can create with his own two hands!

    Lars
     
  12. Nuvolari

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    #187 Nuvolari, Oct 21, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    To me this is a super interesting project and I cannot wait to see the progress. There is a ton of untapped potential in the Dino engine and the Stratos induction system is a really cool way of boosting the performance with quasi original parts (this might be the first 'D-Gruppe' car)

    Getting back to the issue of airbox to hood clearance, one trick that I have used many times to confirm clearances in tight to reach places is to use some children's Play-Doh (any colour will do :)) to act as a deform-able interface to see how much clearance there is when the hood is closed. My procedure is to roll out an equal thickness piece of Play-Doh and put it on the airbox in the areas I think there will be a problem. The next step is to close the engine lid, open it up again, and see if there was any contact. The best way I found to do this is to make an area of ring depressions on the Play-Doh by using the body of a pen. These depressions are very neat and have crisp edges that are flattened with the slightest bit of contact. Using variations of this technique both statically and with active road tests you can get a very exact feel for the actual clearance between the airbox and the engine lid. I might not be all advanced and high tech but it is highly effective and super cheap to do.
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  13. 4CamGT

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    #188 4CamGT, Oct 21, 2016
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    Lars,

    We really appreciate your post and knowing some of the past issues. We've done some more tweaks and testing. The aluminum on this first prototype has been pushed and pulled, cut, aluminum spliced in etc etc. We've now got it in a really good place. Really good clearance and excellent performance. Simon has a second lid underway that will take advantage the extra space and will include the Stratos dimples above the intakes. There's nothing like actual parts to look at and test and have someone like Simon to make mods immediately real time. Here's Simon in his world!

    Freeman
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  14. 4CamGT

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    #189 4CamGT, Oct 21, 2016
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    Here's a shot of my Dino at Simon's. It was really hot that day. Around 95 degrees F. I drove it back home afterwards in bumper to bumper traffic for about an hour with a few areas of clear road where I could open it up. I was really happy on how it behaved in all transitions. Engine stayed cool and ran fantastic. Restarts were immediate with no vapor locking.

    Freeman
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  15. 4CamGT

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    #190 4CamGT, Oct 21, 2016
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    Rob,

    I look forward to when you're next in California and can experience it! It is completely "period-correct"! I use a similar product to Play-Doh. It's a kneadable eraser. It's invaluable to seeing "how much" clearance in every area.

    Freeman

    P.S. It would be "D-Gruppo"!
     
  16. Telaio

    Telaio Karting

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    Proper workshop ..........
     
  17. 4CamGT

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    #192 4CamGT, Oct 22, 2016
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  18. 4CamGT

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    #193 4CamGT, Oct 25, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here is the air box painted in crinkle black along with a data plate I mocked up. The data plate will be silkscreened on anodized aluminum.

    Freeman
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  19. MarkT

    MarkT Karting

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    Excellent!
     
  20. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

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    Looks fantastic.
     
  21. 4CamGT

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    #196 4CamGT, Oct 26, 2016
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    Thanks!!! We're having waaaay toooo much fun!!! The carb setup unleashes so much capability in the Dino! It can now be aggressively put into a tight high G corner without worrying about fuel starvation or flooding. Another "bolt-on" I'm putting on is the comp steering wheel I found some years ago. It's a bit more firm than the stock one. It keeps with the "period correct" character of the car and is completely reversible.

    Freeman
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  22. Telaio

    Telaio Karting

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    Oh so neat and pro, just as we expected .......... major congrats all round, cheers all, Kev.
     
  23. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Well done, Freeman!
     
  24. 4CamGT

    4CamGT Formula 3
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    The Dino is truly a driver's car. The size, the balance, the sound and of course the feeling! They're very special machines. I want to drive my Dino as much as I can and enjoy every moment. Some don't want to change a thing. I can respect that. I can also respect those that are able to blur outside the lines. That's where I live. I live in the "what if"! All my cars have been tuned to my tastes and passion. It makes it mine. I wish I would have gotten to know John Corbani. I really relate to his passion! Remember...it's all reversible :)

    Freeman
     
  25. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

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    Personally, I think your mods are very tasteful and in keeping with the character of the car. Since they're fully reversible they only serve to make the car even more desirable to me. Thanks for sharing your process.
     

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