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Stratos v Dino

Discussion in '206/246' started by abstamaria, Apr 28, 2009.

  1. abstamaria

    abstamaria F1 Rookie
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    Andres
    I can email the only JPEG file I have, Jeff, if that will be clearer. Send me your email address (PM if you wish), and I will email a photo to you. Andres
     
  2. 2GT

    2GT Formula 3

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    Andy, your characteristic modesty is touching! Truly an outstanding garage! Fred
     
  3. jeffdavison

    jeffdavison Formula 3
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    Thanks Andres!

    Pic is beautiful, but not as beautiful as the Stratos itself.
    The pic is now my desktop wall paper, at least until I finish up my replica :)

    ENJOY THE LANCIA!!!!

    JD

     
  4. abstamaria

    abstamaria F1 Rookie
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    I hardly drive the Stratos in the evenings, but yesterday flipped on the switch to turn on the headlamps and raise the pods, with the enginer not running. Suddenly all power to the ignition switch, the instruments, the fuel pump, all else it seems (except the door and interior lights) got cut.

    I checked the fuses, including the two underneath the dash, but all seemed fine. When I turn the ignition switch to "on," the door and cockpit lights dim. I wonder what the problem could be?

    I checked the wiring diagram and don't think the Stratos has a "master" fuse. I wonder if the problem is in the ignition switch, which has to be in the "on" position to raise the headlamp pods.

    I will troubleshoot this week, but any advice will be welcome.

    Many thanks,

    Andres

    PS. Of course, this has to happen at a show.
     
  5. LightGuy

    LightGuy Two Time F1 World Champ
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    One of the reasons I chose a Boxer was because of its visual link to the Stratos. Had a chance at a Stratos years back and didnt pull the trigger. I think I'm too big for a Stratos now. Was cramped even back when I was my "fighting weight" ;)
     
  6. LightGuy

    LightGuy Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #81 LightGuy, May 28, 2011
    Last edited: May 28, 2011
    Check the battery connections.
    Make sure you have a proper ground.
    Check the battery to frame connection.
    If you have a volt meter check the battery voltage.
     
  7. abstamaria

    abstamaria F1 Rookie
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    The battery (a Varley) is fully charged, with a high reading on my meter. Main ground connections seem all right. Thinking about this now, this total power loss to circuits that need the ignition key turned to "on" happened before, but cured itself.
     
  8. stratos

    stratos Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2003
    637
    Switzerland
    Next time it may cure itself once and for all but going up in smoke. The original wiring is very low quality and often the cause of fire. Be very careful. The best thing to do is to redo it properly.
     
  9. abstamaria

    abstamaria F1 Rookie
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    Yes, you are right, Stratos. I will see how to do this properly. The wiring is still original (as with the Glaverbel glass, in response to the eqrlier query).

    This also spurs me to check the Dino wiring, especially the direct connection to the ammeter. I have been looking for the thread on the fuse on the bulkhead, but can't seem to locate this at this time.
     
  10. abstamaria

    abstamaria F1 Rookie
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    #85 abstamaria, May 31, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The visual and philosophical links to the Miura are quite strong, the Miura being far lovelier, of course. My apologies for the poor photo, taken on my phone upon egress at the close of the concours.
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  11. abstamaria

    abstamaria F1 Rookie
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    #86 abstamaria, May 31, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here are two photos taken during ingress and the event itself, showing the Stratos in good company. Barry Meguiar was there, so the Stratos might pop up on U.S. TV on "Car Crazy."

    I will try to sort out the electrics this Saturday. The Stratos probably caught a cold during the concours; it isn't used to that environment!

    Andres
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  12. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    From what you described it sounds like a ground connection problem to me, where the additional load by the pods and lights damaged an already corroded ground connection. It also might be a contact problem within the ignition lock.
    • Try to measure the ground resistance from a reference (good point) to all the ground points of the electrical consumers after the ignition lock (pod,light etc). You should see less than 1-2Ω*(Ohm).
    • Then measure the voltage against reference ground first on the battery, then move from there and measure the supply wire going into the ignition lock and then on the outgoing terminal. Continue from there until you see a voltage drop of more than 1-2 volts.

    Good luck,
    Adrian
     
  13. abstamaria

    abstamaria F1 Rookie
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    Thank you so much, Adrian. I will try that. I am relieved the Stratos is now home from the show, even if it is immobile still. I will work on it over the weekend.

    Andy
     
  14. ilconservatore

    ilconservatore F1 Veteran

    May 18, 2009
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    Is the ignition switch in the Stratos similar to the 246gts switch? if so they can be troublesome. If you're getting funny power readings coming out of the switch, but not going into it, that might be your culprit.

    If its the Dino style switch, PM me and I'll send you a source for one at a good price.
     
  15. jeffdavison

    jeffdavison Formula 3
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    Ignition switch is Fiat, basically the same as the X1/9 and Lancia Scorpion-Montecarlo.
    The usual suspect is the BIG BROWN wire from the switch, Notoriously known for causing the issues mentioned.

    JD
     
  16. abstamaria

    abstamaria F1 Rookie
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    Ah, that is good news. Let me check. Thanks very much.

    Andres
     
  17. philt68

    philt68 Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2008
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    andres-this is a bit off topic (but maybe not!) did you replace your electrical harness at any point? the guy restoring my car tells me the wire is in good shape, but after 40 years....

    phil
     
  18. abstamaria

    abstamaria F1 Rookie
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    Phil, no, I haven't. The original harness is still on the car.

    I think it should be all right to use the old harness, but the connectors, terminals need to be cleaned up. From what I can see, the wires and insulating cover seem all right, in spite of their age. They used longer lasting materials then. I hope I am not proven wrong.

    I am thinking of putting in a cut-off switch. I wonder where this is on the factory rally cars.

    The wires used in newish cars are incredibly fragile. When I had the engine-section wiring harness on my 1996 Porsche 993, the insulation was breaking apart, falling off the wire in chunks. I was horrified. Porsche had a recall for them, but I am not sure the replacements are much better.

    Andy
     
  19. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    The harness itself should be alright. Connectors corrode and the wiring can break where it is crimped to the connector.
    Wires running next to the engine should be checked though as the insulation becomes quite brittle with heat over the time. You might also want to check all wires carrying a high current such as the main lead to the ignition key, alternator, regulator, starter, battery etc. to make sure they don't show signs of overload (melted isolation, darkening of the insulation etc).

    Not sure where the cut off switch is on the G4, on the G5 its behind the door window on the driver side, and there is a second one in the middle dashboard.
     
  20. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    By the way, the insulation material and thickness changed over the time. Wires from the seventies/eighties have a thicker insulation, the type is called 'FLY'. For newer wires the insulation thickness was reduced, this standard is called FLRY.
    When restoring harnesses and wiring, always try to source FLY specified wires.
     
  21. abstamaria

    abstamaria F1 Rookie
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    #96 abstamaria, Jun 11, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    We spent some time deciphering the Stratos' wirng diagram, which must be among the most difficult to read in the world, and a day going through the wiring. The problem seems to be broken wiring to the ammeter, at the point where they are crimped to connectors. Exactly as Adrian (ahlbin) has warned against. These are the fat black wire from the starter to the ammeter and, on the other side of the gauge, the brown wire to the alternator, both without fuses. I wonder if I should install fuses on both.

    I ran the Stratos today, and all seems well. I plan to install a cut-off switch on the ground cable, close to the battery. Would that be all right? That's what I did on the Dino.

    Andres
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  22. philt68

    philt68 Formula Junior

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    andres-you wouldn't have a pdf of the wiring diagram you could send me, would you? i'm desperately trying to find one!

    thanks

    phil
     
  23. abstamaria

    abstamaria F1 Rookie
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    Phil, it's either in the workshop manual or the owner's handbook, but VERY small. I blew this up, so I can read it. I don't have a pdf copy, but if PM your mailing address to me, I can mail a copy to you. Let me know.

    Andres
     
  24. jeffdavison

    jeffdavison Formula 3
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    Phil,

    Send me your email address. I have a scanned pic of the schematic.

    JD


     
  25. swift53

    swift53 F1 Rookie
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    If I may be of help, I have a photocopy of the parts manual if anyone needs it.
    Version 7/76. Just let me know and I'll have it copied.

    Regards, Alberto
     

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