Stripped oil tank drain plug - help! | FerrariChat

Stripped oil tank drain plug - help!

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by jakermc, Feb 13, 2018.

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  1. jakermc

    jakermc Formula 3
    Owner

    Jan 17, 2004
    1,792
    Palm Beach, FL
    Full Name:
    Rob
    Car in question is a 2003 575. The drain on the oil tank has damaged threads and is eating up the drain plug when trying to screw it back in.

    I'm assuming a time-cert repair is the best option here? Anyone know the size and pitch of the threads on the oil tank? Or better yet can refer me to the proper repair kit?


    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    2,239
    Frederick, Maryland
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    Brian Brown
    The drain casting on the oil tank is a separate part from the tank. In a worst case senario, you can just replace the entire oil tank drain casting. It is cheap at only $121 from Ricambi. This casting comes from the factory with a Heli-coil thread insert already installed in it. Are you sure that the threads in the drain casting are damaged, as they should be a helicoil wound from one piece of stainless steel. If it is the stainless helicoil that is damaged, you could pull the original out and install a new insert, as they are a separate part from Ferrari.

    If the drain casting doesn't have a helicoil in it, I would repair the threads by installing a helicoil in it.
    I don't like using time-certs in this application as the sealing surface for the crush washer must be machined with a step in it for time-cert, compromising the sealing surface.
    Usually the problem that I see is that someone has over-tightened drain plug, stretching and distorting the threads on the plug. Have you tried screwing in a brand new factory plug? This is the first thing I try. Do not torque it to the factory spec and always use a new crush washer to avoid distorting the new drain plug.
     
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  3. jakermc

    jakermc Formula 3
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    Jan 17, 2004
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    Palm Beach, FL
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    Rob
    Huge help, thank you!

    Yes, the helicoil is damaged and it chewed up the new plug I tried to install. Looks like the best path is to replace the entire oil tank drain casting as it appears to be cheaper and easier than replacing just the helicoil. (Strange that Ricambi shows the helicoil to be more expensive then the assembly).

    I think the problem has been that I've been torquing to factory spec all these years, and now after some research, I see that the factory spec appears to be overstated. Silly me for reading the service manual. :) Have a recommendation for proper torque?

    Thanks again!
     
  4. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 29, 2001
    17,940
    USA
    Great advice Brian, I have had issues several times with drains plugs (usually a lot of resistance or felt cross threaded) where a new drain bolt/plug was the solution, as the threads had stretched from someone overtightening!
     
  5. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 29, 2001
    17,940
    USA
    My "shadetree mechanic" advice is to tighten until you can just feel the washer start to crush (or yield) and stop. These aren't under great pressure and only need to be tight enough to not vibrate loose.
     
  6. vincep99

    vincep99 Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 8, 2009
    1,931
    I have had god luck using a new spark-plug washer (if you can find them anymore, as they are now mostly tapered seat). They have a thick (and fairly soft) crush height, which can also tolerate more misalignment than a standard oil-pan sealing washer. As jakermc said, do not use a torque wrench, tighten until you feel the crush (or use an angle adapter on your ratchet to measure the deflection, but I do not have an angle spec)
     
  7. POLO35

    POLO35 Formula Junior

    Feb 21, 2005
    712
    Treasure Coast Florida
    Full Name:
    MATT
    It drives me crazy to read these kinds of threads.....people (reputable shops too) overtighten drain plugs all the time. You have to use a fresh copper crush washer EACH TIME or it will leak but people think you can just tighten it a little extra. It's a shame.
     
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  8. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    2,239
    Frederick, Maryland
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    Brian Brown
    I always use a new crush washer and put some anerobic gasket sealant on the sealing surfaces (not the threads!). I then tighten the drain bolt until I just feel the crush washer yield. The drain bolt doesn't hold the car together and is not a structural part of the car. Most people tighten them up way too much, distorting the bolt and damaging the threads in the sump/oil tank. It just needs to be a little tight. I have never seen one loosen up in 50 years of working on cars.
     
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  9. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
    10,406
    No kidding ---- smear the new crush washer with sealant (I prefer Hylomar, myself), tighten down to snug finger tight..... then just a 1/4 to 1/2 turn with the wrench to seat. It's all you ever need, and you will never damage anything.
     
  10. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
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    Nov 11, 2003
    2,239
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    Brian Brown
    Also, think of how many times that drain bolt gets removed. Should be at least once a year, more if you drive the car. Those threads see a lot of use. It is not like a suspension bolt where the torque is critical and you maybe remove it twice in your ownership of the car.
     
  11. jakermc

    jakermc Formula 3
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    Jan 17, 2004
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    Well, got everything back together. I replaced just about everything down there except the studs that the bottom of the oil tank bolt up to. New filter, new union joint, new gaskets, etc. Only $275 for everything from Ricambi, though had to wait for parts from Europe. Nothing like 3 weeks to complete an oil change! LOL

    Thanks for all the help. Still can't get over the Ferrari maintenance manual calling for 55 ft-lbs on that plug. Has me worried about the oil pan plug now as that one I am sure has also been over torqued for the last 15 years.
     
  12. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
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    Aug 29, 2008
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    David A.
    3 weeks, how about 3 months for a second gear!
     
  13. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
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    Nov 11, 2003
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    Brian Brown
    55 ft/lbs is way too much torque for that drain plug. As before, only tighten until the crush washer (with a smear of sealant on it) just yields. 55ft/ls is just crazy, no wonder the threads were damaged.
    The drain bolt is usually the part that stretches when over-torqued, damaging the threads. Reusing the damaged drain bolt then damages the threads in the oil pan. If the drain bolt is tight going back in I usually replace it, because it has been damaged. The new drain bolt will thread right in.
     
  14. Ferrari Tech

    Ferrari Tech Formula 3

    Mar 5, 2010
    1,126
    Georgia
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    Wade Williams
    Thanks for all the help. Still can't get over the Ferrari maintenance manual calling for 55 ft-lbs on that plug. Has me worried about the oil pan plug now as that one I am sure has also been over torqued for the last 15 years.[/QUOTE]

    Where in the Ferrari maintenance manual is the torque spec for the drain plug? My work shop manual just says "-Tighten the caps again after cleaning them accurately and, if necessary, re- place the seals." I also don't see a torque in the torque specification pages.
    Oh, I agree with the statement above, always use a new copper washer. I can't tell you how many oil leaks I have fixed with just a new washer that other shops did not replace.
     
  15. jakermc

    jakermc Formula 3
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    I believe the manual calls for 75nm, which is 55 ft lbs. The passage you quote seems odd, especially "if necessary replace the seals". You would NEVER not replace the seals (copper washers).

    I also believe that the original manuals also called for 10 quarts of oil when a full oil change is really 12. Learning not to trust the manuals .....
     
  16. Ferrari Tech

    Ferrari Tech Formula 3

    Mar 5, 2010
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    Wade Williams
    Thanks, I was just wanting to know where in the manual it said that. I have looked before and clearly missed it. Those manuals always have some issue that makes no sense at times.
     
  17. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido Formula 3
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    Jan 21, 2004
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    Guido
    Ferrari manuals have a lot of errors. 5,5 should be the proper nm I presume...

    Guido
     

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