Hi Everyone, I've been trying to fix this issue for several weeks now and every time I think I've found the problem, it turns out I've fixed something that wasn't the problem. Hoping some of you smart folks can point me in the right direction. 1995 F355 2.7 Car runs great. No apparent misfires or other running issues. Passed CA smog 15 mph test easily but badly failed 25 mph test. High HC and CO indicating a rich condition. Car throws intermittent 1211 code (Lambda Regulation) at idle and very low load only on both banks. Not always together but in the same types of low load/ide conditions. Though the car failed rich, what I found was that the o2 sensor signals (both of them) are indicating a lean condition at low load/idle. Because the car is a 2.7 I don't have the ability to look at live data. So I put a probe into the black sensor wire of each o2 and watched the voltage. It cycles normally between 0 and 1 volt at medium and high throttle openings. At low throttle openings and at hot idle the voltage drops to around .12 volt and triggers the CEL. I ran the wires into the car so I could watch while driving and the result is the same. What I've done: - Fuel Injection Corp rebuilt the MAFs - New o2 sensors - New plugs (the old ones looked ok and were uniform) - Smoke tested intake, found leaks at Plenum Gaskets on each side (the last mechanic did a bad installation job and some of the gaskets were deformed. Fixed those (unpleasant job) - Fixed broken vacuum line at one FPR - Smoke tested exhaust. No leaks at headers (Tubi) or anywhere near the o2 sensors. There was a leak at one side of the muffler which I don't think matters. - Unplugged the SAI pump on the longshot chance it was pushing air at the wrong time. - Swapped ECUs with my other car Given this is a global problem affecting both banks I'm scratching my head at this point. Since the car behaves normally at higher load, I'm reluctant to think I have a fuel problem (injectors, pumps, FPRs, etc). I would think those would make things worse as load increases and car behaves normally in those conditions. Unfortunately, my fuel rails don't have schrader valves so I can't check fuel pressure. What am i missing????
No, I haven't had the injectors cleaned. My sense is that if they we clogged, I'd see issues worsen as load increased. But maybe I've got this wrong? My car is doing the opposite - signal issues at low load, normal signals to ecu at anything above say 1/10 throttle openings. BTW - I forgot to add new coolant sensors for each bank to the list of things I replaced.
I not sure what you meant ...was the ECU trying to lean the mixture or was the O2 sensors indicating rich O2 which means lean ? If you are getting a true lean condition..recheck vacuum and exhaust leaks before 02 sensors Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
The o2 sensors are indicating a lean mixture at small throttle openings/ low load. There's little fluctuation in the voltage signal to the ecu. It hovers between approximately .12 and .14 volts. When the throttle is open more and there's more load, it cycles between near 0 and 1 volts as you would expect. That said, the car runs rich enough to fail the 25 mph test which low load. It almost like there extra air in the exhaust fooling the o2 sensor to tell the ecu to richen the mixture. But the smoke tests don't indicate any leaks which would cause that. I smoke tested both intake and exhaust
Yeah these can be a pain, been a while since I did a 355 for smog. I remember mine spyder had same issue. Was the exhaust valve passing air when it should not be. Also the smallest exhaust leak will suck air and lean read the O2's. Not sure how long since last engine out, cam timing will do it also. Good luck EDIT Forgot to ask, does it normally pass smog or this it's first time. Do you have the old smog sheets?
Thanks Tim. It's only been about 2000 miles since the last smog which it passed easily. I did a compression test around that time which looked excellent. The search continues.....
You mentioned that you unplugged the secondary air pump, but does it run? Had a similar problem recently, and found that its fuse was open.
I'm a little confused, you failed rich (High HC) but are reading via o2 sensors a lean condition (high CO). Diagnosis leads down opposite paths. Did they give you the specific readings?
Like I said been a while, since everything was working 2000 ago I would take a good look at the exhaust bypass valve. It may be slightly open from wear or opening when it should be closed creating a back feed of air. That would cause it. I put a blocker plate in just for testing and the issue resolved. One more thing I would look at are those hoses with 1 way valve that go to the header on each side, not sure of the 2.7 has them but they gave me issues with emissions also
Thanks Tim. That's a great point. It has a Capristo bypass valve for which the default position is open. If it's not closing, that could cause an issue for both banks. I'll check that today. Last nite I actually isolated the vacuum system from the line that feeds the vacuum pump including the SAI from the engine. No dice. Everything is normal there including the pump operation.
One last thing I remembered. Did you look at the Cats? I know the 2.7 has 2 not 4 O2s so it does not read cat efficiency. I always chart cat temperatures so I know when they start to break or clog, yes Im a geek LOL Almost sounds like one may be starting to crack or degrading if not the metal cores but I would pull a pipe and take a look also. LOL I assume you tried the Italian tuneup, a nice weekend out on the highway sure helps. Please post your results @Rifledriver
I have 2 sets of cats. Tried them both - same result. I did take a temp reading - both sides around 400 degrees when hot. I don't think they're overheating which makes sense as the issue only pops up at very low load/low throttle and who drives a 355 that way....... Multiple Italian tune-ups. No difference unfortunately, but I did at least enjoy them.
Yeah, an aftermarket exhaust with valves open will cause 1211/1212 codes. Mostly when you stop at a light after a hard run and are idling. Another not obvious thing to check is whether your thermostat is working properly. I know it sounds strange, but I've had a 355 where the thermostat was stuck open, the car ran too cold at speed, and this caused the ECUs to freak out with fuel trim, throwing 1211/1212 codes.
Yeah this sounds like my old spider 5.2 almost exactly. 400 degrees on cat is nothing. Like Brandon said water temp needs to be 190+ up to 200 Leaning the 02's is some fresh air hitting them from somewhere. Remember free flowing exhaust can feedback some. I would lock that exhaust valve closed and see what it reads. On a side not, on my challenge cars I run wideband 02's to keep track of the mixture and exhaust temp probs. They react very fast and will read off the charts at idle with open exhaust. They start to read accurate at 5-6k rpm or so. If I put the "under 110 decibel" exhaust setup they read accurate from 3500 rpm. Just giving you some info on the exhaust issues with these cars I've experienced and lost hair over LOL
A huge thank you to everyone! Tim and Michael called it. And yes, I got extra grey hair out of this adventure. Capristo bypass valve is not getting vacuum. I put a mitivac on it at 8 inHg and took the car for a drive. No more cels and the voltage signals from the o2 sensors fluctuate normally now at all throttle openings including idle. Cats now at around 575 degrees. Throttle response improved. Now to determine if the vac solenoid is bad. Thank you again all!
9v battery is an easy way to test that solenoid. For reference, my bypass valve issues were the one way check valves in the vacuum lines leading to the vacuum canister combined with dirty contacts at the solenoid.
That's helpful, thank you. I've got vacuum at the vacuum tank so it's looking like the solenoid. I'm assuming I'll hear a click with connecting to the 9v battery.
I tested mine with the car running and known good vacuum in the canister. Whenever I’d power the solenoid with the battery, the bypass valve would open. If I remember right, your capristo valve works the opposite way, but should still be pretty easy to hear if things are working or not. And in reality, if you have good residual vacuum in the canister, you could do this with the engine off and hear the valve itself moving. Edit to add: if you have dirty/corroded contacts at the solenoid like I had, DeoxIT cleaned mine right up and it’s worked flawlessly ever since (almost a year)
After all the endless hours of troubleshooting over the last several weeks, it ended up being a poor electrical connection at the solenoid. Working fine now. I wish I would have checked there first. I know I will if there's a next time
Most excellent learning adventure !!! Know your the resident emissions expert. Lol Pretty cool dog setup the have works really well