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stuck F40 wheel nut

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by ROLOcr, Nov 27, 2005.

  1. ROLOcr

    ROLOcr Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2005
    619
    Costa Rica
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    ROLO
    the wheel nut on the RR tyre of an F40 is stuck, can't get it out, allready tried with some special tool from a tractor company and even with applying 3000 pounds on it it won't get loose(at this point tyre started rotating, brake couldn't hold it) need help! has anyone has had this problem????

    last time we serviced the car we took all the wheels out and and when mounting them, we use the appropiate tightening torque on all 4

    THANKS
     
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  3. DMOORE

    DMOORE Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2005
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    Darrell
    Rolo,
    not sure if you have used an impact driver yet. I know it isn't the preferred method normally but in your case it may be what you need. Try using some penetrating oil and let sit overnight, then the impact wrench.I've always had good luck with impacts because of the way they "hit" the nut. Many times they work better than a steady application of torque for loosing. Iwould find the largest impact gun you can, possibly 3/4 inch drive. At last resort I would try heat. But only as a last ditch effort. Good luck.

    Darrell.
     
  4. ROLOcr

    ROLOcr Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2005
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    ROLO
    i already tried with a 1 inch drice impact socket from a CATERPILLAR dealer and it DIDN'T work! i left if overnigth with some pentrating oil TWICE and still it didn' move, after the one inch driver didn't work we tried the 3000 pounds with a special tool from the CAT dealer also, the owner all ready ordered new nuts so we can destroy the one that is stuck with a drill and a dremel tool and a lot of patience!hahahah
     
  5. ROLOcr

    ROLOcr Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2005
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    ROLO
    ohhh i forgot, we even tried heating it first with a small hand held torch, then a OAW torch with a low setting so we dont damage the wheel but still didn't work
     
  6. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    Jul 22, 2003
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    Of course, you know it undoes in the direction of rotation....The RH nuts are LH thread.

    Have to ask these things!!

    I use a big breaker 1" drive bar which has an extension of 1.8M. At the socket end, it has a bit sticking out sideways to support the bar with a jack or stand, to avoid slipping off.

    Then, driver in the car with brakes HARD on, car on the ground, chock in front of wheel, in first gear with handbrake on.... and bounce on the bar.

    Fchatter 360C recently had similar trouble with his F50. He's errmm, heavier, than me and couldn't undo it. I did it first go... technique is everything, you DONT need to heat or destroy/damage anything.
     
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  8. DMOORE

    DMOORE Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2005
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    Darrell
    It's unreal how parts can sometimes just weld themselves together. Your probably right, having to cut it off with a dremel may be the only choice. At this point you would probably do more damage to the spindle continuing to unscrew the nut. Did any of the others seem to have a binding problem?
     
  9. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    Jul 22, 2003
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    Forgot to say also...

    Don't use impact guns to do up the nuts. Most guns are designed to UNDO more than they DO UP, but on a LH thread, this works against you, as the gun can't undo it's own nut when working "backwards".

    Before you cut anything, make sure the air supply to your impact gun is maximised... large flow fittings, fully charged compressor (or better use a bottle with hi pressure regulator).

    Also, try driving the car hard and getting the brakes really hot. This is what made it go tight, so it might help loosen it without damage.

    If you DO cut it, be very careful as the wheel nut seat is on a taper, and when you're nearly through, it will bind up and trap the cutting tool.

    Cutting it off is VERY redneck. A proper tool (breaker bar) will serve you well now and in the future. My breaker bar is designed to be used with a std 1/2" drive torque wrench... when I fit the nuts I torque them with ease, accurately. They can still go tight, but I can always get them off.
     
  10. ROLOcr

    ROLOcr Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2005
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    ROLO
    i know itundoes in the direction of rotation,the RH nuts are LH thread.i work at an exotic car garage

    already used a 1 inch drive bar with 2.5 meter extension and me and my boss using our weithg(450 pounds combined weitgh) we used the jack stand and even tied with straps the socket to th rim so it wouldn't slip out whn applying pressure, i know that technique has a lot to do and my boss has been working on cars for over 20 years and i just for about 7 years and simply it won't go loose
    a guy i know had the same problem on a porsche race car (twice) and both times he destroyed the wheel nut
     
  11. ROLOcr

    ROLOcr Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2005
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    ROLO
    we also tried to get the brakes very hot and it didn't work, the impact gun we use is in great shape(we use one from a CAT dealership that uses it to fix HUGE machinery and they even used a type of torque multiplier or some thing like that and the brakes couldn't hold the wheel!!!

    we decided to brake it because it will be more expensive to fix the diff or gearbox(due to the impact socket) or the body(due to extension slippng or something breaking and flying loose) than to replace the wheel nut and the labour for it.
     
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  13. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    Jul 22, 2003
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    Good luck, and lets us know how you get on.

    Forgot to say also, the original tool Ferrari supplied for the wheel nuts was just a plastic coated steel tube, pressed into an octagon shape, with a steel strap welded into it to reduce distortion. these are woeful, and the later alloy machined tools are much better. I made my own (double ended, one end F40, other F50)
     
  14. ham308

    ham308 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
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    Richard Ham
    Jeez, remind me never to buy an F40


    :)
     
  15. ROLOcr

    ROLOcr Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2005
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    ok thanks, tomorrow nigth we will destroy it, i will take some pictures and post them

    thanks alot guys
     
  16. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Nov 19, 2001
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    Isn't it amazing how strong little old ladies are. LOL :D
     
  17. Boxer12

    Boxer12 Formula 3

    Jun 1, 2003
    1,672
    I have heard that the Makita electric with a 1 1/2 in socket is the best tool for this job. Not sure if you can find one, but it might be worth looking.
     
  18. 410SA

    410SA F1 Veteran

    Nov 2, 2003
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    Phil, do you have a machined F40 tool for sale, or contact info to order one.
    My original Ferrari supplied one is really looking beaten up with the plastic coating stripped away on parts of the tool.
     
  19. ROLOcr

    ROLOcr Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2005
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    ROLO
    in ours the plastic also fell off
     
  20. ROGUE GTS

    ROGUE GTS Formula Junior

    May 24, 2004
    827
    Kalifornia
    If a 1" drive impact (1500-3200ft/lb) won't get that nut off your likely going to destroy the whole setup in an attempt to save the wheel.

    The thought of taking a dremel to that setup is more than scary, good luck and please take pics.


    Curious, have you tryed CO2? Put a small (very very small) butane pen torch on the nut and slowly heat the entire thing. Shoot the drive snout/hub with CO2 and get it frosty. Soon as you do that SLAM that nut with the biggest impact gun you can find. If it moves at all be sure to get it ALL THE WAY OFF or it's never going to move again.

    I have a feeling this hub/spindle will find it's self mounted on a mill and cutting the whole hub/nut off.
     
  21. ROLOcr

    ROLOcr Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2005
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    ROLO
    i take pics and post them maybe by wednesday, thanks
     
  22. andrewg

    andrewg F1 Rookie
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  23. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    Not really, but I could make one if needed.

    My own cost me AUD$850 to get made as it's the special F40/F50 dual purpose one, and my breaker bar was another AUD$600

    I'm sure there are resources in the USA that could do it for you much cheaper than that.
     
  24. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jim Glickenhaus
  25. Boxer12

    Boxer12 Formula 3

    Jun 1, 2003
    1,672
    I once had to destroy the nuts on a 911, which basically welded themselves on due to incompatible alloys. I found it easier to use a hole drill and drill just outside the threads, then pick the threads out with a tool than using a dremel tool, which was too hard to keep steady. The hole drill worked well and it was a fast job once I found the right tool.
     
  26. ROGUE GTS

    ROGUE GTS Formula Junior

    May 24, 2004
    827
    Kalifornia
    There is one small problem with attempting that on an F40...

    http://www.tarox.com/images/ferrarif40-wheel-large.jpg
     
  27. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    Apr 1, 2004
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    is the spindle aluminum?

    somewhat related, i have a mag flashlight -aluminum- that the cap has welded itself together. i can not get it it to unscrew, so it stays dead and i bought another one. i tried everything down to filing wrench flats on it and clamping it in my 12" vice. i only ended up twisting the stupid thing. for what ever reason the aluminum decided to chemicly weld itself together. might also be attributed to
    the caselated thread pitch, giving more surface area for positive contact.
     
  28. ROGUE GTS

    ROGUE GTS Formula Junior

    May 24, 2004
    827
    Kalifornia
    That is just an attribute of aluminum, much like titanium it does not take well to friction or repetative forces. Seen it a million times in everything from threaded aluminum sections to aluminum or ti seatposts in bicycles. You just have to grease the living chit out of them and all is well with the world.

    There is no way that car has an aluminum spindle, my guess is stainless or ti. Either way everyone needs to put some good grease on their studs/nuts especially if they will see heat or disimillar metals... are you listening CS owners ;)
     

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