Stuck Shock Perch and Novice Lowering Springs? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Stuck Shock Perch and Novice Lowering Springs?

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by mdrums, Sep 17, 2020.

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  1. mdrums

    mdrums Formula 3
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    #26 mdrums, Sep 19, 2020
    I will be going over to my dealer today if service is open... not sure... but on Monday I am demanding a resolution to this crap issue. Car has been at the dealer since Sept 9th for something that should take a day to do.

    Dealer is hard to deal with a little bit... i hope they do the right thing. Late Friday when we talked and I reminded them they told me the outsourced machine shop got the perches moving and now they say no. Service guy said he'd eat the machine shop cost. If they think this is the last car i buy they are mistaken and I hope they want future business. I doubt they nor Ferrari really care. I'm not being unreasonable or hard to deal with but this has been an utter horrible Ferrari experience over something so dang simple.
     
  2. RayJohns

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    #27 RayJohns, Sep 19, 2020
    Usually your average machine shop isn't exactly staffed with F1 mechanics. Clearly someone clamped the aluminum into a vice of some kind, based on the marks. In my garage, I have a vice with special aluminum jaws which help to protect parts - I also usually wrap parts in a towel or a rubber sleeve to prevent marking things up. The fact that your super expensive coilover shows signs of clamping marks tells me that whatever machine shop they used must not be very good. My guess is the shop turned the part over to some kid and said "here, free this nut".

    You should ask them which shop they used and go for a little visit and/or check Yelp. Like I say, most people making their living doing machine work aren't exactly Elon Musk.

    Also, it's a bit alarming to me that the Ferrari dealer's service department, commissioned with lowering your $300K car, had to farm out a stuck nut in the first place. I do all my own work here - in just a home shop - and there aren't many jobs I ever have to send out.

    Ray
     
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  3. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 World Champ
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    #28 MANDALAY, Sep 19, 2020

    That's the difference between one who knows what they are doing and one that doesn't. On another car my mechanic followed the same method without me saying a word. Some people shouldn't tackle something they are not experienced.
     
  4. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 World Champ
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    #29 MANDALAY, Sep 19, 2020
    Can I assume this was the first shock taken off and no others ?

    Did you buy the car at the dealer that attempted this lowering ? If so they are responsible to fix the situation. Unfortunately like I've said it can go around in circles. If it looks like its going that way best bet is to just buy a replacement. But get my first questioned answered.
     
  5. RayJohns

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    #30 RayJohns, Sep 20, 2020
    The main issue here is the force generated between the two nuts during the jam / locking action. When you lock the jam nut, it hits the perch but the threads want to keep moving forward due to the turning force. Of course, the nut can't move forward due to being jammed up against the perch - therefore, whatever load you apply is partially backwards loaded against the thread flanks.

    If nothing moves (during disassembly) and you simply reverse the process and back the jam nut off, then relatively little damage or galling should occur. This is why it's critical that the perch and jam nut aren't accidentally turned as one joined unit. If that happens (and it's easy for that to happen if you aren't holding everything correctly), then what you are inadvertently doing is applying a lot of torque with a wrench that isn't going into freeing the jam nut, but rather is all going into tearing away the internal threads. This can serve to friction weld the aluminum and/or gall the faces of the thread flanks.

    Think about being hit by a car. If someone hits you and you get pinned under the car, that's not ideal. But if someone hits you and you end up trapped under the car - and then they drag you down the road for a 1/4 mile before they realize you are stuck under there - then that's going to be a lot worse.

    Trying to free the jam nut and having the perch turn is like being dragged under the car; something is going to end up very badly hurt.

    To do the job correctly, you need two spanners and no interference from the spring. Also, all this soaking in oil and adding heat doesn't address the main issue of a binding load existing across the threads and faces. If anything, adding heat might actually hurt, because as the outside jam nut expands more quickly, this could serve to increase the lateral load which has already been generated during the original locking moment. Also, where galling is a potential factor, you usually don't want aluminum to be warm.

    The main thing is here is you've got to reverse the jam nut exactly as it went on, without anything else moving. Even then, depending on how much force was applied at the factory, it's still a risky procedure due to working with small aluminum threads.

    Ray

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  6. mdrums

    mdrums Formula 3
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    #31 mdrums, Oct 5, 2020
    Hi all, I wanted to follow up on this issue...as I know from being on forums a long long time that guys post issues and then disappear and no one knows the final outcome. That bothers me so I will not do it here.

    So... my dealer, Tampa Ferrari turned out to be extremely careful with all this and trying to fix this issue with out incurring more cost to them, although they did and never charged me more and incurring more cost to me. I do appreciate that, immensely. This is not a daily driver car so there was no rush but at the same time I was #1 priority with them.
    Ferrari would not warranty the stuck shock perch. Even though the shocks come as adjustable and the perch was stuck from the factory, Ferrari claims no warranty on shocks and this must have happen after delivery. So since Ferrari will not stand behind their shocks, then installing Novitec springs voids the shock warranty anyway, it really no longer matters if I have shock warranty or not from Ferrari!!!! WOW huh?

    Ultimatly I decided on Novitec springs since there is no shock warranty with Ferrari. I have just heard so many positives on these springs which are KW Springs designed for these Ferrari's but with better spring rates and helper springs. I wanted to try them and my dealer gave me the best price anywhere I could find in order to help smooth things over.

    The Novitec springs use a new top perch in the rear. This was the perch that was stuck on my rear shock. So they cut off that top perch to install the new Novitec Perch. Before they installed the Novitec Perch they used a big tap to run and clean the treads and a thread file to further clean the treads. They did this for me on all the shocks and my perches will spin up and down the threaded shocks perfectly.

    The issue with these Ferrari shocks and perches getting stuck is that they are raw aluminum. The thread shocks on my Porsche GT3 cars are aluminum too but they are nicely anodized which protects the aluminum and gives a more slippery surface. It is a real shame Ferrari does not spec there shocks like Porsche does.

    Once the Novitec springs were installed the dealer set the car up lower (not slammed) like I wanted, tuned in the front to rear rake and made further height adjustments on some shake down runs before alignment.

    Once on the alignment rack per my wants and needs and the dealers advise they did a custom alignment for me. It was hard, dang near impossible, to find factory alignment specs here on Ferrarichat.com or anywhere on the internet. My local indy Euro Porsche shop and my Ferrari dealer got me the factory specs a couple weeks ago and so did forum member IL-Co Piloti and I dialed in from there the specs I was considering. I will do a final alignment later this year after a track day to see how tire wear is and how the car feels. Right now as it is it feels really good and this alignment is great for the street and lightly aggressive driving on curvy roads. It is really hard to find curvy roads around the Tampa area but I know a few...LOL

    Here are a bunch of specs for future reference. I hope this helps someone out...I needed this info months ago, but no where to be found.
    Thanks to Tampa Ferrari, and IL-Co Pilota on these forums and Robert Mitchel on Youtube for posting his specs from Manthey Racing.

    Below are 2 photos of my car....it is not slammed low but just right and it leans less in the corners. Also the Novitec springs oddly are more compliant over sharp bumps. This was a perfect mod with great improvements.

    Also I have a set of HRE P107 Wheels in Brushed Natural in Clear Gloss on the way. Stock 20" front and rear with a tad less offset to push the wheels out toward the fender edge but not all the way out.

    Ferrari 488 GTB Specs


    TIRES

    Front 245-35-20 26.8” Overall Diameter

    Rear 305-30-20 27.2” Overall Diameter




    OEM STOCK ALIGNMENT

    Front
    Camber : -1 / -.6 Degrees
    Caster : 4.7 / 5.5 Degrees

    Rear
    Camber : -1.5/ -1.1 (factory-1.33 degrees)
    Toe : +.13 /+.19 Degrees

    MY ALIGNMENT SPECS

    Front
    Camber : -1.2 degrees per side
    Toe : -.09 degrees OUT (.7mm aprox ) out per side
    Caster : non-adjustable 5.8 Degrees


    Rear
    Camber : -1.6 degrees per side
    Toe : +.15 degrees IN (1.4mm aprox) per side inward
     

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