Stumble below 2500 rpm - 78 308 GTB | FerrariChat

Stumble below 2500 rpm - 78 308 GTB

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by pernicev, Aug 21, 2006.

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  1. pernicev

    pernicev Karting

    Jun 22, 2005
    134
    Hello all,
    I'm hoping I can get some more good advice as in the past. My 78 308 has developed a bit of a hesitation below 2000-2500 rpm with backfiring through both the exhaust and carbs. It sounds like one or more cylinders are missing. Above that the car runs smooth with lots of power (more power than usual actually). Prior to this suddenly coming on, the car ran great at all speeds.
    Here is a list of everything I've done so far:
    -Changed spark plugs several times, going to hotter, back to stock and back to hotter again. Plugs are brownish. Some are whitish.
    -Changed all spark plug wires
    -Checked the resistance of all extenders and all are straight through
    -The condensors are new
    -I've removed, filed and reset the points, The idle points are disconnected at the microswitch
    -The mechanical advance is properly lubed and fuctioning
    -I've checked and re-checked ignition timing
    -Re-synched the carbs to be dead on balls perfect

    Looking through the oil filler, the rear bank cam that I can see is spot on. My plan of attack is to check the cam timing on the foward bank, but I wanted to see if there are any other ideas I may be missing. The fact that I'm getting slightly more power in the mid range, leads me to believe that it's a cam timing issue.
     
  2. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
    16,078
    Arlington Heights IL
    Full Name:
    Kenneth
    Have you checked for air leaks at the carbs? That could account for the backfire, whitish color on some of the plugs and poor idle from being too lean, as well as the feeling of better HP. It's an easy check to do with carb cleaner spray. Can you isolate which carbs are backfiring? Match the plugs to that carb if you can; are they the white ones? The only thing is, the sense of a low RPM miss would not be consistant with running slightly lean.


    Ken
     
  3. pernicev

    pernicev Karting

    Jun 22, 2005
    134
    Yeah I thought of that, but I guess its worth a shot to spray the bases. Maybe I'll hook up a tach and re-adjust the mixture too.
    Vince
     
  4. pernicev

    pernicev Karting

    Jun 22, 2005
    134
    Update: I found plug #4 to be a little wet and it does not respond at all to any change in the idle mixture. This is the same carb that runs the brake vacuum on my car. I don't have any problems with braking, if that means anything. Any suggestions?
     
  5. cavallo_nero

    cavallo_nero Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,707
    colorado
    Full Name:
    Giovanni Pasquale
    if you see no changes when adjusting the idle mix screw, chances are ablocked passageway in the idle circuit. pull the idle Jet AND the Idle Mix screw on that circuit. blow compressed air thru both passageways. my car does this al the time, easy fix, but a pain to get to sometimes.
    john
    78 308 GTS Euro
     
  6. driver

    driver Karting

    Sep 19, 2002
    121
    Check for dirt in the idle jets. It is probably dirt in 1 jet.
     
  7. bill308

    bill308 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    May 13, 2001
    1,224
    Windsor, CT
    Full Name:
    Bill Sebestyen
    Also remember that a cylinder not responding to a mixture adjustment could also be the sign of not enough air flow in that cylinder at idle. There is a minimum flow requirement to meter fuel. Try bumping up the airflow a little to the affected carb and see if you can now adjust the mixture.

    Check also that there is at least one closed flow balance screw on each carb. This adjustment is used to increase air flow of the low flowing throat to match the high flowing throat within a carb. The high flowing throat must have the flow balance screw seated.

    How are you measuring the air flow?

    Bill
     
  8. 78-308gt4

    78-308gt4 Formula Junior

    May 22, 2005
    735
    Memphis, TN
    check this particularly on your #4
     
  9. pernicev

    pernicev Karting

    Jun 22, 2005
    134
    I'm using a flowmeter. I'll check out the possibility of blocked jets and re-evaluate how the air flow balance screws are set up and get back with my findings.
     
  10. pernicev

    pernicev Karting

    Jun 22, 2005
    134
    I blew out all of the idle jets with compressed air and noticed some improvement, but it's still running crappy. My #4 is no longer wet though, its a nice blackish-brown. At all speeds I seem to get a hesitation/miss, but mostly when the engine is under load (i.e. accelleration).
    I'm out of ideas.
    Anyone?
     
  11. cavallo_nero

    cavallo_nero Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,707
    colorado
    Full Name:
    Giovanni Pasquale
    did you also blow out the idle circuit passageways with compressed air.?? thats what did it for me.......
    john
     
  12. pernicev

    pernicev Karting

    Jun 22, 2005
    134
    You mean where the idle/mixure screw goes? I did it for the rear bank, but not the foward bank. I'll do that tonight and see if there's a difference.
     
  13. cavallo_nero

    cavallo_nero Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,707
    colorado
    Full Name:
    Giovanni Pasquale
    Yes, but to do this correctly, you must pull the idle mix screw AND the Idle jet for each circuit, then blow out the passageway.
     
  14. ferrari308pilot

    Aug 4, 2004
    6
    Portland
    Full Name:
    Doug
    I have a 78 GTS that had a backfire problem. While in the shop adjusting the clutch, the mechanic noticed that one of the anti-backfire valves was corroded through with a nickle-sized hole. Replaced both valves and the hoses. Car runs beautifully.
    Might be worth a check.
     
  15. pernicev

    pernicev Karting

    Jun 22, 2005
    134
    OK, I blew out all 8 circuits, some improvement, but still hesitation at all speeds when acellerating. When stepping down on the gas, there is a long quiet pause before the engine sputters and then revs. It seems to rev OK when the car is at a stop though. I pulled the plugs and the rears are all a nice toasty brown, while the foward bank has three white and one bank. I am going to try and re-synch and then re-adjust the mixture on all carbs. If that doesn't pan out, I think I've exhausted all options and I'm going to have to pull the foward cam cover to check the valve timing.
    The funny thing is that I saw the same thing with the plugs on another 308 that skipped teeth on the belt. If that's the case with this one, I don't think its more than one tooth.
     
  16. pernicev

    pernicev Karting

    Jun 22, 2005
    134
    Make that three white and one black
     
  17. pernicev

    pernicev Karting

    Jun 22, 2005
    134
    It seems that the idle jets were the problem afterall. I just re-checked the ignition timing and found the 5-8 bank timed to the 1-4 bank... DOH! After cleaning the idle jets, there was a significant difference, but it just didn't run right because of that silly little mistake. So much for double checking and triple checking if your not going to read what exactly the marks say. I sure am glad I didn't start taking cam covers off.
    Thanks to all for your helpful suggestions.
    Vince
     
  18. bill308

    bill308 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    May 13, 2001
    1,224
    Windsor, CT
    Full Name:
    Bill Sebestyen
    Are you concluding that the poor running was do to the 5-8 bank being miss timed?

    Bill
     
  19. pernicev

    pernicev Karting

    Jun 22, 2005
    134
    The hesitation above 2500 was from the idle jets. After cleaning them and removing the distributor to cure an o-ring leak, I inadvertantly set it to the wrong timing marks.
    Thanks for the help.
     

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