Stumped.. | FerrariChat

Stumped..

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Lagerlout, Aug 26, 2006.

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  1. Lagerlout

    Lagerlout Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2006
    468
    West Sussex, UK
    Full Name:
    Mr. LL
    OK, this is OT, but as we have a lot of techies here I thought I'd ask. Now I have a fair bit of experience with old bangers but this has me very confused.

    Lotus Elan Sprint - Big valve twin cam/ford x/flow.
    Dual DCOE 18's
    Lumenition Optronic ignition

    Car has had the following: Rebuilt head, brand new carbs, new distributor, new coil, new lumenition.

    Have been steadily eliminating faults and replacing components as identified. This car has sat for nearly 15 years.

    I had the car running sweet for the first time since I've owned it last weekend. Drove it home, switched it off to park it, went back to it and the car refused to run on more than 2 cylinders.

    I had already ordered a new dizzy 43D4 Aldon as the original had a lot of slop and a dodgy advance mechanism.

    Anyway today fitted it up, timed her to 12deg btdc on no.1 compression stroke. Come hell or high water she refused to fire. Had spark, had fuel. I eventually got it to fire but again, it would only run on two.

    I'm thinking it's got to be the lumenition module playing up as we're talking new dizzy, new cap, new rotor, new leads the works. Coil is showing fine on the primary.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 1, 2004
    7,789
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Bruce Bogart
    2 cyls on same carb?
    Plugs look good? (2 not firing washed down?)
    I'm sure you've checked the firing order a zillion times, so I won't insult you by mentioning that.
    Strange.
     
  3. SpannerMan

    SpannerMan Karting

    Nov 7, 2005
    116
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Erik Rathmann
    Try some carb cleaner sprayed into the throats of the cylinders that won't fire. I suspect that there is no fuel in those cylinders, and spark is ok.
    Doesn't take much to clog a main jet/Idle circut.
    Does drying the plugs (if they are wet) off help it run on all four-even for a short time?

    Good luck

    E
     
  4. Lagerlout

    Lagerlout Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2006
    468
    West Sussex, UK
    Full Name:
    Mr. LL
    That would make sense too, no fuel - a blockage. Problem is, this is a brand new alloy fuel tank and has had around 1 tank of fuel through it.

    Am going to give it another go today maybe I missed something simple.
     
  5. Lagerlout

    Lagerlout Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2006
    468
    West Sussex, UK
    Full Name:
    Mr. LL
    Retimed it again and she started right up but running rough. Readjusted the carb mixtures by ear and got it into a sweet idle. It's weird because it was tuned up on a colourtune last week.

    Only thing I can think of is that the car was full of muck and needed a good italian tune up (which I gave it) now it needed retuning again. Oh well, next step will be to get it up on the rollers and set the webers up properly. Thanks for the advice guys.
     
  6. bill308

    bill308 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    May 13, 2001
    1,225
    Windsor, CT
    Full Name:
    Bill Sebestyen
    Lagerlout,

    Sorry to here of your difficulty. I have an S2 Elan with DCOE 18's too.

    The twink with Webers is prone to flooding at startup, so check the condition of the plugs. Are any of them wet with fuel?

    Your engine uses the same plugs as 308's. The Lotus baseline plug is too cold for normal operation. Try some new plugs with a modest gap of maybe 0.025 inches. NGK BP6ES or better yet BP5ES, or their equivalent, would be a good choice. Change them if they are wet.

    There are lots of possibilities for trouble shooting, but best to retrace some of your steps.

    1. Are you sure timing was set on number 1 on the compression stroke?

    2. To static time, I always set the engine up at the point of firing, then turn the distributor base in the correct direction until I hear the ignition fire. The correct direction to turn the base is opposite to the rotor direction. That is, back off the distributor in the retard direction, then advance it relative to the rotor until you hear the ignition fire, it'll sound like a click. 12-degrees BTDC is a little agressive in my opinion given your current difficulties, try setting it to 8-BTDC until you get it to fire and clear itself. This should make cranking a little easier too. Ensure your battery is up to snuff. Charge it well and check the fluid level.

    3. Check that the plug wires are on corrrectly. Firing order is 1-3-4-2. Check plug wire electrical resistance, cap to plug end. You could have an open.

    4. The floats on DCOE 18's sometimes hang up. Check for freedom of movement. With the cover held vertically, float level is 8.5 mm between cover, with gasket fitted, and the float. The float tang should be lightly sitting on the valve ball, but not depressing it. Droop clearance is 15mm, again with the gasket fitted. Too much droop could cause the floats to hang up.

    5. Pull the starting and idle jets and blow clean with compressed air or at least carefully inspect. Sometimes debrit will find its way in, especially if a fuel filter is not fitted. You don't know what might have been in your new fuel tank. Check that the fine mesh screens are fitted at the inlet and are clear.

    6. Check and record the existing mixture needle valve positions by lighting seating. A good initial setting would be about 3.5 turns open.

    7. Perform a crude idle synchronization check by removing the brass screw caps covering the progression holes. With a light, you will be able to view the relationship between the throttle plates and the progression holes. All holes should be covered with one set just beginning to be uncovered when on the idle idle stops. Gently actuate the throttle linkage and confirm that all the throttle plates move in unison and uncover the progression holes by the same amount. Check that the progression holes are drilled uniformly position wise. One of my holes was miss drilled and required a small champher on the throttle plate edge to resynch it with is cousins in other bores. Replace the caps.

    8. The crank pulley may have been replaced by a previous owner. There is no guarantee that the TDC mark is correct. Reestablish TDC with a dial indicator if possible. Best readings are taken with the piston about half way up the bore, from each direction, and then splitting the circumfrencial difference on the crank pulley edge.

    I hope this helps.

    Bill
     
  7. bill308

    bill308 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    May 13, 2001
    1,225
    Windsor, CT
    Full Name:
    Bill Sebestyen
    Lagerlout,

    Nice going. Looks like I was a little too slow to be of much help with my reply.

    Bill
     
  8. Lagerlout

    Lagerlout Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2006
    468
    West Sussex, UK
    Full Name:
    Mr. LL
    Thanks for the advice Bill, I didn't know it should use 5ES. I'm using 7ES at the moment as you say probably too cold. Will swap them out when I get the chance.

    I'm just happy to have the thing running, I've just about rebuilt the entire thing over the last year trying to sort it. Just a big mess of previous owner muck ups.

    Cheers,
    Neil
     
  9. bill308

    bill308 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    May 13, 2001
    1,225
    Windsor, CT
    Full Name:
    Bill Sebestyen

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