Stupid but easy: Conical or ball seats??? | FerrariChat

Stupid but easy: Conical or ball seats???

Discussion in '360/430' started by damntall, Jan 6, 2025.

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  1. damntall

    damntall Karting

    Jun 15, 2018
    85
    San Jose, CA
    Full Name:
    Bryan Wright
    #1 damntall, Jan 6, 2025
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2025
    It looks to me like the wheel bolt seats are conical on these cars... but I can't definitively tell because I'm also told that it's visibly subtle and the appear to be conical while ACTUALLY being ball-seats. For contrast, visually my water-cooled Porsches are quite (extremely) obviously ball seats.

    But I have some Hill Engineering spacers with longer bolts that (to me visually) appear to be 22mm bolt heads... and quite bloody obviously conical seats. Is there some subtlety I'm missing here?? F430 Spider here.

    So which is it???
     
  2. GogglesPisano

    GogglesPisano F1 Rookie
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    Sep 13, 2022
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    Closeup picture below. I see zero ball curvature. it's not like there's some secret giant diameter that Ferrari developed specifically for themselves. That would make zero sense.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. JPCIII

    JPCIII Karting

    Oct 4, 2024
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    Jason P Curtiss III
    My '07 F430 Spider definitely has tapered seat rather than a spherical one.

    Jason
     
  4. GogglesPisano

    GogglesPisano F1 Rookie
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    Just curious, who told you they were ball seats?
     
    damntall likes this.
  5. damntall

    damntall Karting

    Jun 15, 2018
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    San Jose, CA
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    Bryan Wright
    Typed this into chatGPT just now:

    Me: ok, you're wrong. The Ferrari F430 requires wheel bolts with tapered seats

    ChatGPT said:

    No, that's incorrect. The Ferrari F430 uses ball-seat (R14) wheel bolts, not tapered (conical) seats.

    Proof That F430 Uses Ball-Seat Bolts:
    1. Ferrari OEM Part Number 181291 – This is the standard ball-seat wheel bolt used on the F430, 360, and similar models.
    2. Ferrari Factory Wheels Are Designed for Ball-Seat Bolts – The OEM Ferrari BBS and Speedline wheels have rounded lug seats, not conical tapers.
    3. Aftermarket Confusion – Some aftermarket wheels may use conical bolts, but factory F430 wheels require ball-seat bolts for proper seating and load distribution.
    If your wheels require conical bolts, they are likely aftermarket wheels or replicas. You should check the wheel seat recesses—if they are rounded, they require ball-seat bolts (R14 radius).

    Thoughts?
     
  6. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Brian Crall
    Thoughts???
    He's an idiot.


    Here is a 181291 he cites in his post. Thanks for the picture Daniel.

    I defy him to show me any curvature in the seating area of the bolt.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. GogglesPisano

    GogglesPisano F1 Rookie
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    You don't want to use Chat GPT as a source for anything technical if you can help it. At the very least, ask it to cite sources if needed. Something like this could have been generated from an idiotic argument that was had 20 years ago in which the original person was wrong, but now it's on the internet.

    For reference this is an R14. Zero similarity to a factory part.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  8. damntall

    damntall Karting

    Jun 15, 2018
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    Bryan Wright
    Thanks, guys. Thought I was going crazy there for a while. I went with Hill Engineering.
     
  9. 066/8

    066/8 Formula Junior

    Sep 29, 2023
    254
    Yes - in its current state, chatGPT is not a reliable tool for answering technical questions. Some of its replies are truely brillant, some are just plain and simply wrong.

    Perhaps it prefers to confidently give a bullsh!t answer instead of "I don't know". Ironically this trait would immediately qualify it for middle managment in any automotive corporation.
     

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