Subscription or not

Actually, there's quite a few subscribed users that seem devoted to flame wars and hostile attacks.

There's also quite a few unsubscribed users that provide valuable input, especially in the technical and model-specific fora

 

I think the issue is whether or not a user is "invested" in the community. That can happen through money or time. For many, a monetary committment demonstrates that they want to treat their membership seriously and act accordingly. For some subscribers, a few dollars is still insignificant and they can still behave to the detriment of the community. The most valuable commitment is a large number of well-thought out posts (not just thousands of one-liner posts) as this represents a lot of time invested in the forum which is a more meaningful investment than any subscriber fee for most of us. A new user who chooses not to subscribe hasn't demonstrated that investment and interest in the community yet, so they could be a PITA troll or they could still be a good user.

An idea to address this is if there were some way where any level users could read all forums, but a new user could only post to the main Ferrari forums by reaching a level beyond "Rookie" (250 posts?). They raise their level above "Rookie" by either 1) investing $ by subscribing, or 2) investing time by posting on the Regional and Off-topic forums and not getting banned.

 

I regret that the Ferrari Owner’s forum has little activity as Ferrari provides a validating hurdle to participate. The anonymity of e-mail and forums such as FerrrariChat have the potential to bring out the worst of human behavior. People say and do things they would never do in person because there is no social contract between the participants as there is in most civil communities. In other words, there is no cost of bad behavior.

Alex, you have kindly shared your wonderful collection of cars with the FerraiChat community and the communities in which you live. I’d like to thank you again for your generosity.

I have felt FerrariChat burn-out and on several occasions and have considered asking Rob to pull the plug on my subscription. At this point I would be willing to try anything different because the current system is not working for me either.

 

I couldn't agree more... Although not a Ferrari owner, I consider myself a serious member - not here to troll or be a "tourist" - my interest in the Ferrari world is as dedicated as the Roland Linders, Alex Papases, Armens, Carbons, etc., etc., etc.

I've received some criticism as of late for participation in a thread in which I criticized the thread originator's intentions because I wasn't a Ferrari owner. Does that make a difference? I'm a subscribed user, my profile is filled out, I participate in local gatherings and events, I have a large (by my standards) collection of Ferrari memorabilia, and all that's missing is the car in the garage. Believe me, that *will* come - SOON. Without making a long post only longer, the opportunity to purchase numerous Ferraris has come and passed by MY choice - from 308GT4s through 355B's - I've simply placed other life priorities first (buying a house, taking care of student loans, etc.). I want every aspect of my 1st pruchase to be *perfect*....no regrets.

That said, I do find it highly frustrating sometimes when I try to be a very involved and "vested" member of this community, only to be met with scrutiny or disregard simply because I don't own a Ferrari. I was a lurker here for years before I ever signed up...intimidated, admittedly, by the climate of Ferrari ownership (or lack thereof) - but, do we discount the opinions of Carbon or Jordan? No.

Lately, though, I've noticed a very clear line that's been drawn, and I seem to be on a side that I don't wish to be (outside of the Collectibles & Memorabilia section). However it plays out...I'll stick it out... A change in the structure of this forum might not be a bad thing, however.

 

To be honest this is one of the reasons why I haven't yet subscribed. Sometimes I come here and enjoy reading intelligent informative posts, but other times come in and find pissing matches between people over nothing. This in turn pushes a lot of the worthwhile threads down and I often miss reading them the first time round.

I'll just hang out and contribute where I can.

Oh and Yin, you're dead on, once again.

 

Alrighty..... It's Rob's board but as a mod I am kinda charged with carrying out his policies. I dunno how much the other mods chat with Rob but in phone calls we have had I get the impression that he would like to set the standard a little higher.

I definitely see what you are saying about members that are "vested" in the community versus the random folks who are are basically unknown quantities and spout whatever. Some of those folks are actually Ferrari owners and some are just kids who are interested. Right now there is no real set way of dealing with the random idiots unless they are actually breaking the rules by flaming or having multiple accounts. There have been a few instances lately where established users have complained about anonymous newbies sh1tting up threads and I have asked them to quiet down. As has been noted already it's not always the anon newbies that are causing problems.....

Short of locking down a bunch of the forums to paying members do you have any specific suggestions of things the mods can do to improve the board? If this includes eliminating people who are a negative influence on the board then please propose some sort of method to identify those folks in some sort of objective manner.

I gotta get to bed here but my final suggestion would be to check out the Fchat police in the Silver section. There have been a lot of trolls whacked from the tips I get in there and there is plenty of discussion about what to do with some other less desireable members of the board.

 

If you think a thread is being hijacked then please report it...... If I have the time I will try to split the irrelevant bits away. If it's a big thread that I haven't kept up with it can be a real pain in the butt to sort out so it makes my life easier if a particular post # is given where things went off track.

 

When I respond to posts I have never paid any attention to whether the guy is "subscribed". In fact, I cannot even tell you the current status of some of my favorite players around here. It really means nothing to me. I just signed on as Rosso because I wanted to support Rob and FChat as best I could. I have had a huge ROI from it.

 

ditto

 

I just wanted a sig.


I kid you not.

 

Aaron,

Since I was the one who criticized your conduct in that other thread (Ultimate Additive), I will respond. First, my initial comments about your posting was that there was no call to flame the originator of what had turned into an interesting discussion, IMHO, about fuel additives. Someone asked a question that actually prompted other board members to begin an ad hoc test of the so-called miracle additive. After all, what was the guy's ulterior motive? Did he have a corner on the acetone market? I think not. There was no reason to go off on him.

As far as your lack of Ferrari ownership, it matters not to me. Many who contribute here don't own them and provide useful information and comments. But when you make a statement that purports to be on behalf of Ferrari owners, my point was you ought to be one. Make all the comments you want on any topic you want, but don't make comments that suggest that you are speaking AS a Ferrari owner on behalf of Ferrari owners unless you ARE or WERE a Ferrari owner. That was my point. Same way I would not make comments from the perspective of being a BMW or Porsche or Mercedes owner, since I've never been one.

And I disagree that some bright line has developed between owners and non-owners. Plenty of non-owners contribute here and are subscribed here and bring interesting perspectives to many of the topics. The comments I made were directed at you because you flamed someone unnecessarily in an otherwise successful thread claiming to speak on behalf of all Ferrari owners. My objection, frankly, is to the considerable waste of bandwidth here on useless flaming and totally useless topics. I come here to be informed and enlightened, not to waste my time wading through crap threads like "Which car has the sexiest lug nuts?"

If I went too far by criticizing you for lack of ownership in that thread, my apologies. Next time, if you have something useful to say that will advance people's understanding of a topic, chime in. Otherwise, kindly refrain from spoiling an ongoing thread by flaming someone for no good reason.

As for limiting unsubscribed, I'd vote to severely limit them. I think it would cut down on a lot of the wasted postings here. It won't eliminate them totally, but it will definitely cut down on a lot of it.

Regards,
Steve

 

I'm not subscribed, but enjoy the Forum, and have found amusement in some people's attitudes. Doesn't anyone remember "sticks and stone will break my bones, but words will never hurt me?" C'mon kids, the first amendment allows people to say what they want. If you don't like what they're saying, just don't listen, whether it's an opinion or a flame.

The reason I haven't subscribed is because I'm OK with what's free. Part of that is because I don't know what's behind the Rosso or Silver wall. Perhaps if there was a limited time that anyone could have access to the whole site, it would a) Get more people to join, because they get to see what it would be like to have access to the whole enchilada. b) If you dont' join within a set time frame, then you're probably not getting much out of the forum anyway, and you won't care. It would also automatically eliminate the trolls et. al.

Also, Steve, if you want people who only own or have owned Ferrari's to comment regarding Ferrari specific issues, you're overlooking one simple matter. There is no clear way to verify whether or not the poster does, or has owned a Ferrari. Unless you know that person. I'm sure there are plenty of people making comments as "Ferrari Owners" that have never even seen a Ferrari before. Some of the most blatant posers get nailed withing the first 10 minutes, which by the way is one the most entertaining items in this Forum. I wouldn't want to scare those guys away, it's a hoot watching the regular cast of characters nail the trolls.

After reading Alex's post, it makes alot of sense, so I'll subscribe today (as soon as I find my fricking wallet!). The choice now is Rosso or Silver.....hmmm.

Just my .02

Cyrus

 

The kids that are on this site today, are the collectors and owners of tomorrow. I would hope that the subscription prices would not escalate to the point where many of the wide eyed 12 year old dreamers won't have access to the site.

Besides it seems as though some Dads are using their sons to find information for them. I think that's cool.

Cyrus

 

i figure i am using a service therefore i decided to pony up and pay.

 

Cyrus,

You make some good points. Bottom line, I guess I'm just getting tired of all the flaming. It serves no useful purpose. Someone starts a good thread, discussions are going along on topic, then someone else lights up his flame thrower, hijacks the thread, and it's usefulness is lost. This sight is about Ferraris. It's a private forum, not the steps of city hall. The First Amendment doesn't apply here. No one has a Constitutional "right" to post anything he wants here. The owners of the site can set whatever restrictions they want on usage and posting. There is one forum for politics and religion, which is gratuitous on Rob's part and nice that he choses to indulge that. IMHO, thats where the "opinions" belong, and the rest of the site should stay relatively on topic. But hey, that's just me.

As far as kids having access, I have no problem with them reading postings on the site. But unrestricted access to posting is another story. My $.02.

Steve

 

Just a few points, from a non-subscriber, I'd like to make:
- Most readers/ad-viewers on this site are not subscribed (I assume).
- Some of my favorite posts are those in which a poster comes out of the woods to respond about someone's new car, that they once owned, or worked on, and have history of; these folks usually have a handful of posts. If they had to pay to post, I doubt they would. If viewing were private they would have never viewed the thread. Another way to look at this - there are many owners trying to piece together the history of their car. Making contributors pay would make this more diffucult IMO.
- When someone posts "and you don't even own a Ferrari" in a thread, everyone with a Ferrari is quick to defend them. Someone posting "and you aren't even subscribed" doesn't get the same response.
- At my first FCA social event, after becoming a member, I felt like an outsider. When I walked up, everyone looked at me like "who the hell is that". No one said hello - No one. I went around looking for the pres of the chapter. A non-FCA member is the one who helped me find him. I never received introductions, and the people who spoke with me the most were all non-FCA members. Granted, everyone was nice, and I did RSVP by the way, but I didn't feel like I joined a club - I felt like I paid to watch a clique. And to top it off, there was very little Ferrari-talk. Needless to say, it was the first, and last, social I attended. I'm debating whether to renew my membership. What is being proposed in this thread seems much the same to me.
- If these "trolls" are such a nuisance, why dont moderators just ban them? Or give warnings, then ban. On the engineering forum I participant in, this is what happens to most of the armchair-engineers, and those whose advice is unsafe practice. Then after 30 days, they come back on probation. Some get banned for good.

$0.02 from an unsubscribed lurker...

Edited - spelling

 

Alex, nice thread thanks for starting it. I think the most intelligent and well spoken reply's so far have come from Fasterisbetter. I think that it will be very difficult at best to police flamers by some restictions on posts. I was visciously flamed for no reason, but we are all big boy's aren't we? If everyone were kinder we wouldn't have to fight fire with fire, but in this case it worked and sent the rascal packing into retreat. I guess every flaming case will be different and will require different measures. Flamers are insecure bully's at heart and when they are confronted with some of their own medicine they become very confused and spend most of their time trying in vain to justify their actions.
This thread puts all flamers on notice to try to be better humans, drop the false arrogances and get educated so you can contribute in a positive way to the many treads. We forgive you and look forward to hearing from you, but please don't let that confuse you.
Be very careful or you to will be labled FLAMER!!!

 

unsubscribed users should be allowed 250 posts or so. enough to get newbies hooked and allow the occasional troller to comment.

 

I couldn't agree with you more Tommy.

 

Quinn, it is too bad that you didn't enjoy whatever FCA function that you attended. Even though I probably attend the fewest of the local membership, they are generally fun. What is even better are the driving events. I'm sure that Grady would love to have a second chance to change your mind.

Dale

 

I don't feel a Ferrari or Non-Ferrari Owner should be Forced to Subscribe.If you Place a Maximum on the number of Threads or Posts, you are faced with the Old Dilemna: Quantity or Quality.

I belong to 2 Corvette,MB,Porsche & Maser sites, all free of charge.I Patronize the Sponsors, who in turn Financially Support the Administrators.

A Win-Win Scenario for everyone. Subscribing should be Optional, not Mandatory !


TROLLS should be Eliminated A.S.A.P. !!! I don't feel a $15 per year Fee will discourage all of them.

 

Back on topic, I'm guessing that most of the griping about newbie members comes from old farts like me. This Gen X Internet flaming that goes on annoys the crap out of me. I simply refuse to buy into the cliche that, "Well, everybody is a juvenile delinquent on the Internet. It comes with the territory."

I don't care whether somebody has a Ferrari or not. I don't care if someone says that a F1 transmission sucks. I don't even care if someone thinks that an Enzo looks cool.

But it does bug me when people can't be civil. And experience has shown that non-subscribed members are generally the most obnoxious. Witness what happened with P&R moved to subscriber only. It still gets heated, but it looks like everybody is coloring inside the lines.

At the same time, I enjoy new blood, particularly if someone has something to contribute about cars.

So perhaps the best approach is to require some type of commitment before someone is allowed to post. I don't care if it is even $5. Having some type of "pay to play" seems to cut down on most trolls.

Dale

 

i have said this before; This is "FerrariChat" not FerrariownersChat"