Subscription or not

Gary, I don't know whether it was your intent or not, but if those who repeatedly 'flame' were required to actually wear the brand "flamer" in place of their name (or otherwise) it might help to quiet down some of the pubescent behavior.
An acre (that's more than a 'lot') of intelligent, thoughtful posts and ideas here, so far.
Thank you, Alex, for starting a much needed discussion.
Keith

 

I have been saying it for awhile, I agree with the subscription. No access unless a member .

 

The issue of subscribing has less to do with acting as a filter against unwanted posts/posters than it does with giving Rob a little back for all that this community means to alot of us.
I agree that if the board were subscription only, it would inhibit newcomers, not because of the cost, per se, but because it is an additional hurdle to just signing on and making a post or two.
We have benefitted immensely from the injection of fresh views, voices and perspectives. If this board were confined to the same limited group of regulars, it would get dull indeed.
From the perspective of someone new, I guess it might look like a clique or old boy's club, but it's really not. Some of the most knowledgeable people here are also some of the most approachable. Granted, there will be differences in views, and personality conflicts; sometimes, people say things via the remoteness of a keyboard that they might not if they were face to face.
But the board is, for the most part, self-policing. If someone is heavy-handed in their criticism of another poster, that usually gets reflected in responses from others. If a moderator has to step in, the thread has in all likelihood, already gone too far.
This has nothing to do with someone's status as a subscriber, owner or their tenure here- some very profound things have been offered by non-owning non-subscribers, and some very stupid things have been served up by subscribing owners of long standing.
The only thing I can offer is that we set a tone that invites respect across the board. That doesn't mean we can't disagree, or even go for the jugular sometimes, but if done deftly, it raises the level of the game, and demands more eloquence and thought than crude bashing.
I've been delighted to be here since 2001 and have enjoyed the growth and changes to the board since that time. We all make it what it is.

 

Alex:

You are my hero!! No really! I just figured you subscribed because..........well, hell......you've bought everything else and this just got caught in the mix!

I guess I haven't been paying much attention as I didn't realize that there was a subscription...and furthermore....what would be the difference between subscribing and not. You will have to tell me.....

I am not here all that much, but from what I have seen....the make up of the members/posters has changed over the years. I think that previously most of the participants were owners who were sharing information. It has morphed into a different type of forum. How many threads have I seen asking, "Who's got the best rear end", or "What do you do for a living", or given X$$, "what would you pick". I guess I preferred more specifics about the cars, etc. I know I can go to the model or the tech area....or maybe I should just not complain...........heck, I didn't buy a subscription that I didn't know about.........so I take it all back!

 

As a non subscriber, I've been reading this thread with great interest and want to thank Alex (who I hope to meet since we've got similar inventory and I have a home in scottsdale too) for starting a much needed discussion.

I participate, more as lurker rather than poster, in both FerrariChat and Rennlist. I am a paid subscriber to Rennlist, but not to FerrariChat. I've thought about subscribing to F-Chat, but have been put off by the behavior I've witnessed here. The level of personal attack, blatant bigotry, racism, and general rudeness here is often striking. I've not noticed similar behavior on Rennlist. I underrstand and accept that my experience is limited to these two boards, but the differrences are pronounced. I don't have any pop-psych explanations for the difference in behaviors, but I don't believe that it's related to whether or not one is "subscribed" to a particular board.

I have not, and honestly, will not subscribe to F-Chat unless and until the Admins and Mods step up and curb inappropriate behaviour in a programatic and consistent behaviour. For Rob I suspect that this is a business, as well as a labor of love and passion for the marque. Nevertheless, the ultimate responsisbility for the tone of and behaviour on the board falls to him, and through the Mods he has selected. I pass no judgement here as we live in a free world, but like most on the board (I assume) I vote with my checkbook. I will continue to participate where I think I can make a contribution and I will accept if the collective wisdom concludes that as a non-subscriber I should be limited in some way, or even prevented from participating other than as an observer. I've learned alot from this site, and I've met some INCREDIBLE people here as well, but so long as the tenor of the site remains as it is, I will not support it financially, other than to patronize the sponsors whenever I can.

One man's opinion FWIW.

 

Les,

Well put.

When I subscribed over a year ago, the tone here was easier to take.

The last year has produced many changes, most not to the good, that make me pause when I consider re-subscribing.

You post says succinctly what I've been thinking for some time. The tone here is boorish, often abusive, and has some not so subtle racial and ethnic slurs as constant undertones.

I think you're right. We vote with our wallets, and that vote should be based on how the mods and Rob do their jobs here. Don't like what they're doing, don't pay for it.

Dave M.

 

time will tell, Dave.

 

I dunno guys. I think you expect too much from Rob and the moderators, when in reality, its as much your board as theirs. By that, I mean that its not enough to observe that the board is 'boorish' (to borrow Dave's word), but that it's ok to stand back and pretend not to pass judgement, as Labcars claims. Worse, you are saying that, while you'll remain passive, and await the outcome of the moderator's work, you won't subscribe or resubscribe, as long as the board retains its ragged tenor.
I'm not condoning racism or boorishness (great word). But, i think you guys have a responsibility too. This board is what you make it. Look at poor Dale. The guy was in heaven here. Couldn't find a happier man. Did the board change? Sure, but it had changed several times before Dale joined, and changed as many times afterwards. Was it the board, or Dale's sensitivities, that got Dale to the point where he can't stand it? I single Dale out only because I like and respect him, have known him for a while here, and think he is a litmus for the kind of antipathy you are talking about. Dig in, contribute, give back, take, *****, do what you want here. But realize that it is largely a product of your efforts and the efforts of many others that this board is what it is. I just don't think its fair for you to put this all on the board's administration. You not only have a wallet, but a voice. Use it.

 

Having read the preceding posts, I appreciate the diversity which obviously exists here. Members/posters obviously span a wide range of backgrounds and stations in life but yet all share a passion for Ferraris.

From this collective passion we are bound to, here and there, ignite conflict, but this is perhaps unavoidable. I feel it is more important to moderate some of the bickering than it is to subdue it altogether. Sometimes, a unique viewpoint is also a controversial, or even a disruptive one (but only at first).

I think the danger is allowing F-Chat to become a "good ole' boys network" (and I don't think it is at this point) where new posters are, by default, taken with undue skepticism, or just ignored until someone "endorses" them.

Without taking sides on the subscription issue, let me at least say that people tend to put more of themselves positively into something which they have made a tangible investment than if they have not, but are too uninhibited in giving out their unending 2cents' worth!

I agree in some form of subscribed area, which we already have; but it is also not well frequented, on the other hand.

I also think that OOT (other off topic) should remain what it is, within decent limits, however. I certainly don't go there hoping to find timing chain info and end up shocked by a John Lamour thread on leather and chains!

This is a wonderful forum, and fresh blood is important. I would hate to see anything done which could impair or wound the influx of young and new ideas.

 

LOL, well, I'm still here ain't I?

Actually, the biggest change here has been when F-Chat went big time (sic). I don't remember how many folks were here when I joined in 2003, but it was no where as big as it is now.

Is bigger better? Beats me.

I am concerned that a number of people who I consider to be friends have left due to concerns that some of you don't have a clue when it comes to coloring inside the lines.

I am also concerned that there is hardly any car talk, much less about Ferraris, any more. Personally, I don't care about all the John Lamore (sp?) trash talk and that kind of stuff, but it is easy enough to avoid. To me this banter is just boring.

At least Allan Lambo engaged in car trash talk!

I'm kinda busy right now, but I'll see what I can do to start some Ferrari threads in the future.

Dale

 

I have been on the fence for a while now on this issue. I have gained a lot from ferrari chat from meeting great people, going on rides, going on plane rides, and just sharing a common interest with cars with people who I never would have met any other way. But, there is just so much hostility here it isn't nearly as welcoming as it was 3 years ago when I joined. (I am just as guilty as everyone else) It has been hard to handle the constant new members and telling people they made a repost or search the archieves are not the answers that people should share. Also, I will not subscribe after I have seen long time members who welcomed me to the chat leave as a result of the way the chat has changed. I used to love signing on f-chat to read what quesitons people asked in each forum now it seems as if off topic is the only place there is conversation. People are joining just for off-topic. I get the feeling the chat isn't about ferrari's anymore sometimes. I am not singling anyone out, but just saying for having 20k members sometimes there are days where only a few technical threads or vintage threads were started. Does everyone know all there is to know about these cars? I am still learning. I will have to subscribe soon though as I want to be able to post pictures and I am almost at the limit allowed for a non subscriber. That is the reason I will subscribe sad isn't it.
Erik

 

$15!!! What's the world coming to! AND we get to look at PRIVATE photos!!! Sounds pretty fishy to me........ I'm sure you have a nice stash........Not enough to be illegal.............but just enough to get ya by!

I can hear it now.........."Honey, I'll be right there..............I'm just checking out the latest on FChat!" Brilliant!!

As far as winding people up goes.......I think we both used to get good 'ol Alan Lambo pretty wound up.............or was it the other way round?

 

I have lurked here for while and recently began adding my voice...

Sure this board has changed... Sure I wish there were more threads on the cars themselves, but it could be worse. I began to invest more time here as I was turned off by other boards that I participated in.

Over the time that I have been here I have learned who of the regulars that I feel have the most to offer me... I look for threads and posts by those people.

I don't have the answers on how to cut back on trolls and flamers... I only know that if this place were subsciption only, I would most likely not be here today...

As for subscribing, if there were more specifics as to what I got out of subscription (ie: additional area's that I would have access to) I would be more prone to cough up $$$.

That all said, I am gald that there are people who have created a place like Fchat... from Rob to the regular posters (both subscribed and not).

My .02...

 

A further observation:
Recently, there have been several 'art' threads. I believe some have been posted by youngsters. Many of these drawings are stunning, and indicate an awesome level of 'love of subject matter'.
Many young people don't have much money, and the term 'starving artist' is founded on a certain amount of fact.
In some cases, mandatory subscription might deny such folk the opportunity to share their work/love/passion. THAT would be a terrible, disappointing loss for EVERYONE here.

BTW, I'm currently unsubscribed because I am a shameful tightwad. I'm making myself wait 'till Christmas!

 

No need to be ashamed. You are welcome here whether you subscribe or not.

 

I let my subscription lapse. ( I used to be Rossa. ) I didn't feel there was any added value other than a bigger avatar. There were a lot of promises of added value though.....

Regards,
Chris

 

Ditto...........Nothing more needs to be said.

 

Whart, I thought your whole post was excellent, as usual. You are one of the board members whose posts often grab me and I very much appreciate the intelligence and viewpoint you bring.
Like many on this board, I come here not only to ask questions and "talk Ferrari" but to learn about other parts of the country/world and how people think and feel. I really appreciate those who get their point across without going to the gutter to do it.
This board is great entertainment and for a lot of us, sort of a hobby I think. With that in mind, I agree wholeheartedly that we should be responsible to set the tone and create the most desirable atmosphere possible. If we are going to spend(too much!) time here, shoudn't we give it the same care and respect we would our cars? If there is something discordant going on with our car, we take care of it. Same could be true here.

 

Another lurker here . . .

Rather than restrict unsubscribed members why not reward subscribed members. On Rennlist - private Pcar forums - members receive:

A Membership card, which will be sent out as soon as your membership fee is received.

Discounts on various caps, t'shirts, pullovers and polo's found at the Rennlist Goodie store.

Discounts and/or incentives from Authorized Rennlist Sponsor and Suppliers.

Members may request a free e-mail account with a RENNLIST.COM address as well as a free webpage within the RENNLIST Domain.

Discounts and/or incentives to attend Rennlist featured track events including Tracquest.

Invitations to Rennlist gatherings. Rennlist gathering held at PCA's Parade99 at Mont Tremblant. Also, many attended the Rennlist gathering held the evening prior to the 2001 Central PA's Hershey Swap.

Only members can post in the Cars/Parts For Sale areas.

Ian

 

This is no place for silliness...!
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I subscibed just a couple days ago. I've been a member for over a year now and just thought I would help out Rob a little bit. 15 bucks for a year membership isnt super expensive by any means so I thought why not.

 

I want to subscribe soon. I just got my credit card but haven't activated it yet. I've spent quite a bit of money recently on Christmas shopping and a trip to Chicago so I'm going to wait a bit first... I'm a poor college kid, give me a break! But really, I'm glad the price is so low.

 

Another word on flamers! I don't think that flamers are always ill intentioned but are always destructive. I don't know if its an ego thing or if its empowerment by being anonymous or both, but it brings out the worst in those that flame. Its as if their misguided opinion is so powerful that they don't even realize or are blinded of the havoc that they are creating to a bonafide thread. They mistaking take a counter opinion as a personal assault or attack on their beliefs. Look we cannot approach these threads like were walking on eggs. Be big boy's and suck it up if someone doesn't agree with you.
The best defense is offense and if you make a statement,then before you do think about how you can defend your opinion with facts or data. Taking the intelligent approach will make you more friends and earn respect. If you are not looking to be liked then so be it, don't just spout off to show everyone how much you know, that gets old and boring fast. Always pursue the goal of sharing information in a kind and giving way and that will take care of you.
I have always liked the saying: " I'd rather be respected than liked any day". Over time you will be known in the chat community as someone whose word can be counted on and not some crackpot who must be ostrasized from time to time or outrightly banned.
Flamers wear me out and take the steam out of threads, but I and all others should meet them head on and expose them to prevent further infractions. Be good to your fellow chatters in the spirit of knowledge gathering. We will all be better for it.
Winston Churchill sumed it up well: " We will defeat them not by strength, but by guile.