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Successful replacement of "that short hose" in situ?

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by It's Ross, Feb 12, 2020.

  1. It's Ross

    It's Ross Formula 3

    Jul 30, 2007
    1,983
    Barrington, Ill. USA
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    Ross
    #1 It's Ross, Feb 12, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
    This one;[​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    I need to tackle what appears a nigh on impossible job so seeking advice from those who have done it.
    Seems I'll need some flexible hose, what have others used?
    What is hose ID? I've tried to measure stub (access limited)and come up with 40mm. There are a few 38mm hoses else where which are much closer to 1 1/2" which is easy to find. Have I measured wrong?
    Tips?
     
  2. 365GT4 2+2

    365GT4 2+2 Rookie

    Jan 1, 2016
    49
    Essex, England
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    Justin R
    Sorry, can’t do the link thing but if you search in this forum for “400i water pump hose” you will find everything you need to know. It was covered in May 2018. Hose is 38mm and there is a clever trick that renders the job relatively easy, apparently.


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  3. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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  4. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,202
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
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    Ken Battle
    Silicone hose is clearly more flexible than conventional nitrile hose and one of the referenced posts says the wall thickness is slightly less with same pressure rating. No reliability issues with silicone hose.
    Another poster suggested cutting a small amount off the upper pipe. If this can actually be done with engine in car it would make this job so much easier. An air saw might work even if sacrilegious
    Now to get on my soap box: This is one of several items on this car, mainly the motor, that the designers knew exactly what they were doing to make the job near impossible. When they made the top spigot the length that it is, it clearly made this "normal maintenance item" damn near impossible or at least time consuming. For years I thought it was a conspiracy between the designers and the dealer techs to maximize their billable hours. Having read about the total lack of dealership network in the early days (a few years before our early cars), the designers had no idea that people would actually want to maintain there Ferrari's! That is why so many 250 to 360 GT's ended up in barns, even Testa Rossa's!
    Another pet peeve is changing all the auxiliary belts. I have a step by step procedure in my notebook about which order to do things and which belts to tighten when. If I ever do all the belts again, I will take a Dremmel to some rough casting on the engine block that will reduce my time to do the job by at least an hour. Oh my God what will the judges say??!! I drive, I don't get judged.
    I'm sure others have a few other pet peeves like that. Sorry for soap box.
    Ken
     
    Al Campbell and 365GT4 2+2 like this.
  5. Choptop400

    Choptop400 Karting

    Oct 10, 2014
    85
    Huntington, NY
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    Frank L Caponi
    Southjesery400I; No matter what they say, size does matter. I just reduce the size of the top spigot by 10mm (15 minutes). Doubling the clearance and reducing the fight by 80% and saving several hours of labor. There is no engineering reason that the top spigot has to be as long as it is. Also, quick note, WTF, why is the spigot so thick. It is thicker than the side wall of the block. lol
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  6. It's Ross

    It's Ross Formula 3

    Jul 30, 2007
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    Thanks guys. I saw those threads when I searched and pilfered both my images from same.
    My question was the OD of the spigots as I was having trouble measuring. I managed better access and 39 mm is the answer, at least for the top one.
    I've bought 38 mm silicone hose from a racer supply house.
    This 38 mm silicone hose (from Pegasus racing) also fits comfortably over the 40 mm water outlet on top of the engine and perfectly to the thermostat housing, eliminating the need for the $$ molded hose. This I discover after scouring hose catalogs for an hour, finding a reasonably closely sized necked down hose for another application and cutting off one end.
    My intent is to swap the pump to block hose without cutting the spigots which I assume to have barbs( I don't see one in Frank's photo above) to retain the hose.

    Ken, I'm in total agreement about the poor engineering of this set up. My thoughts are that perhaps, since this lump's genesis is the Columbo racing engine, the hose was expected to outlive the engine and servicing it was a moot point. I also don't see any reason for the hose to be as long as it is. If it spans the gap, makes it past the retaining barbs with room for a clamp and perhaps another clamp's width that is all you need. I'll try to install a new hose same length as the old for appearances sake but if it puts up too much of a fight it and or the spigot will be shorter.
     
  7. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Owner Consultant

    Dec 26, 2001
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    Newman
    Im not a fan of altering castings and avoid it at all costs but Ill admit I would shorten that spigot too.
     
  8. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    26,871
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    Brian Crall

    100's of thousands of Ford FE engines were designed the same way so lets not single out Ferrari here. FYI I have known many professional Ferrari mechanics who have managed to replace that hose . The one difference I can see is that they just did it and didn't stand around complaining about it. If the job is beyond you, hire someone capable.
     
  9. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie
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    Wow dude. Ego much? haha.
     
  10. It's Ross

    It's Ross Formula 3

    Jul 30, 2007
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    SO.
    I am here to report that all the hand wringing over this job is for naught.
    I have just done mine, it took all of ten minutes, most of which was cleaning corrosion from the spigots, I found "plumbers cloth" handy for this.
    The silicone hose made this a breeze, thirty seconds, really, and that is with hands suffering from tendon issues. I'm sure the original style heavy reinforced hose would be much more difficult, I'll leave that for the concours restorer.
    So, Brian, no complaints here.
     
    bjwhite likes this.
  11. steved033

    steved033 F1 Rookie
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    Apr 12, 2017
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    Steve D.
    Great work! Got a picture of your success?

    sjd
     
  12. It's Ross

    It's Ross Formula 3

    Jul 30, 2007
    1,983
    Barrington, Ill. USA
    Full Name:
    Ross

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