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Suing Race Tracks

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by Texas Forever, Feb 25, 2005.

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  1. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    #1 Texas Forever, Feb 25, 2005
    On another thread that I can't find anymore (hell, I can't find my glasses most morings), Art mentioned suing a race track. I don't want to get into another lawyers are all a$$holes thread. Boring. We know that allready. :)

    What I am interested in knowing is the legal standard for operating a race track. Like all of you, I sign those waviers everytime I venture out. And, yes, we all know that racing is a dangerous sport, that only a true dumbass would participate in.

    However, what duties does a track owe to its participants? Say that a certain corner is dangerous because there is a one inch drop off between the concrete expansion joints that is right at the turn in point following a 1/4 mile straight. (As a side benefit, many people have told me that they have met God at Turn 1 of TWS. There is no extra charge for this.)

    Or say that the runout of the last turn is a concrete wall with a few tires for decorative effect.

    Are these and similar tracks at fault?

    My reason for asking is that I have a more than passing interest in building a road course track someday...

    Dale
     
  2. FarmerDave

    FarmerDave F1 World Champ
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    #2 FarmerDave, Feb 25, 2005
    An additional aspect I hope someone can answer is whether or not these people (owners of TWS, MSR, etc) are "self insured" (read: no insurance)against liability lawsuits or whether they maintain some sort of commercial general liability insurance policy.

    (I must admit, I'm getting a chubby thinking about the premiums that would be involved w/ such a policy. :D)
     
  3. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    #3 rob lay, Feb 25, 2005
    That is Art's law specialty, so I guess he would know. From talks I've had with him before it varies state to state.

    I can't imagine any race course not being dangerous. Dale, next time you drive TWS 2.9, remember this...

    Straight away you're going the highest speed. If you have a blow out, you will most likely go into a snap spin. Those cement walls at the top of the oval hurt at 115 mph in a Spec Miata or 160 mph in a Ferrari.

    Turn 1 you should be taking flat out and brake once you bounce down off the oval. Ever look off Turn 1? Drive over there on a warm down lap, it's next thing to a cliff. That's where most cars flip at TWS.

    Turn 5 you will have to dodge trees if having a big off.

    Turn 7 you should take flat, but watch the rut at the apex and God bless if you survive going straight off dodging more trees.

    Turn 9 is the most dangerous corner at TWS I think. Sure there are tires, but that is a fast corner with a wall a few feet off the track. That wall has a few notches on its belt.

    The rest is a piece of cake!

    The last person to die on TWS with the SCCA had a heart-attack after crossing the finish line.
     
  4. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    #4 Texas Forever, Feb 25, 2005
    The God comment came from a buddy of mine who races Ducatis at TWS. The hot line on the bikes is to hug the wall down the straight until your wake starts pushing you away from the wall. You then dive bomb off the embankment where you meet Mr. Expansion Joint under trailing throttle. My buddy says that this closest religious experience he has ever had.

    On one hand, you willingly accept the risks when you hit the track. On the other hand, we should all strive to make racing as safe as possible. We have come a long way from the risks described in Brock Yates book on the 1955 race year.

    So when Art mentioned that he (or somebody else) just sued a track, it makes me wonder where we are regarding our insane hobby.

    Dale
     
  5. maranelloman

    maranelloman Guest

    #5 maranelloman, Feb 25, 2005
    IIRC, Ol' Yaller sued Irwindale Speedway, which is a dragstrip, I think. Perhaps a drag car blew up & the fire crew was too far from where all the nitromethane was?
     
  6. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #6 BigTex, Feb 25, 2005
    TWS requires a special Event Coverage for group events, provided by K&K in Indy......

    Day to day testing of one or two cars is allowed on the base coverage.

    This info per former Manager Rusty Rush.

    I have the contact info for K&K, somewhere...it's in the Contract you sign with TWS. It's not that expensive, BTW. $700.00/day +/-

    I guess you can sue anyone you want....recovery is usually another issue.
     
  7. Lawrence Coppari

    Lawrence Coppari Formula 3

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    #7 Lawrence Coppari, Feb 25, 2005
    Where is TWS and what is its full name?
     
  8. WCH

    WCH F1 Veteran
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    #8 WCH, Feb 25, 2005
    "I don't want to get into another lawyers are all a$$holes thread."

    OK - people (plaintiffs) who sue racetracks are a$$holes, as I suggested in the other thread. Better?

    Seriously, I guess I could reluctantly be persuaded that tracks and racing parts & equipment makers probably should be subject to liability if there's gross negligence, very narrowly defined, but - there's not a court in the land I'd trust with defining the standard of care for the racing community.

    Bottom line: I'll bet your liability question is answered by state tort law, so you may get 50 different answers.
     
  9. WCH

    WCH F1 Veteran
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    #9 WCH, Feb 25, 2005
  10. Gilles27

    Gilles27 F1 World Champ

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    #10 Gilles27, Feb 25, 2005
    My brother-in-law, four years ago, bumped into another guy at work who was illegally sitting on a railing (it's a trading floor). The guy sued him for injury to his back. Here are the details:

    He had a degenerative disc to begin with.
    He hardly missed any work.
    He regularly water skis and plays golf.

    End result? $1M settlement! A little over $900K paid by insurance, the other $80K or so out of his pocket.

    The point is, while I'm no lawyer, all those warning signs and so-called releases are worth a big pile crap-ola when a PI attorney decides to attack your insurance carrier pro bono for his cousin who tripped and fell at your track and broke his leg, or heaven forbid, was injured in an on-track incident and felt medical attention was sub-par.
     
  11. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #11 fatbillybob, Mar 2, 2005
    The thread was about the HANS device. And it is amazing how quiet Art is on this and the other thread. Well would not want to give out a scrap of free useful information would we... It is amazing all the good info disseminated on this list. We have some great contributors on FC.
     

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