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Sultan of Brunei's Car Collection

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by masterflex164, Dec 11, 2005.

  1. Citronella

    Citronella Karting

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    Hmmm, never seen any brabs when i got a look into the F1 shop, but then again they had cleared alotta f1 stuff when i got there, and not all f1 cars where theirs, a lotta f1 stuff was on loan to the family as a goodwill gesture from the teams for certain dealings that i will never know about, you have to understand that anybody thats was someone in the car industry leached onto the Royal Family for their bottomless piggy bank which HRH Jefri treated as his own, the poor Sultan was getting all the blame for the spending when in fact it was other members who where the real culpirts, part of the reason for the brunei crash, i have alotta respect for the Royal family cause lets be honest they had sooooo much cash and no real advisers who said, hang about mate, thats not really a good idea..after all the advisers where creaming soo much of the top for themselves they just didnt care, they where filling there coffers too, thay all got blinded but the black gold, i would have done the same if i was in that position too, when the crash happened they where long gone with there bank accounts filled with royal money...anyway back to the point, i seen 7 F1 Mac road cars out there, i never seen number eight as touted, possible it could have been in another location, i knew the inventory pretty well but i like to stick to facts that i seen with me own peepers, God Bless the royals!
     
  2. BlueBiturbo

    BlueBiturbo F1 Rookie

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    How many black F1 LMs are there? Two?
     
  3. LNR

    LNR Karting

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    Amazing! I'd like to know more about that 600 pullman built by AMG with modern S-class components.
     
  4. tx246

    tx246 F1 Veteran
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    i have posted this many times before, but no one seems to want to listen. the days of the sultans car collections are gone. yes, he may still have quite a few cars ( even if you define "quite a few" as more than the average bear), but the days of custom cars are gone. most have been sold off if they were not destroyed.

    in brunei, the cars are rhd. other than f1 cars and special older cars, almost all the cars were rhd. many of the cars have entered into asian collections or british collections. all were that sold were sold w/o any advertising to the public. the discreet sale of these cars was crucial. there is a reason no one has recent pictures of the collection as it doesn't exist anymore.
     
  5. Peloton25

    Peloton25 F1 Veteran

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    #56 Peloton25, Jul 18, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi Citronella- It's a very interesting and rare first-hand perspective you seem to have had. I appreciate you sharing what you did so far.

    Can you tell us if you recognize the car in this illustration? Thanks so much. :)

    >8^)
    ER
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  6. Citronella

    Citronella Karting

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    Cheers Peloton25, yeah i can answer that question for you, that pic you have(where in the hell did u get that?) is an LM, oh hang on actually it might be badged as a GTR, for some reason i think there was a yellow GTR badge on the back, i will have a look and get back to u on that one:- anyway Orange was the colour of choice but of course the royals wanted it in a different colour scheme which the pic you have is how theirs ended up, actually really cool when seen in the flesh!
     
  7. Citronella

    Citronella Karting

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    Hmmmm wspeer! Sorry, dont mean to be annoying but your comments dont make sense, rather disjointed as there are a few telling facts that u have got wrong, sorry u have to understand i hear so many people who say things about the whole operation as if they where there and werent, there actually was a hell of alot of LHD vehicles and actually people where taking photos around the complex like it was going out of fashion,and there is no way in this world that the collection has been sold on in the numbers you think as believe me there wasnt just the one or twos, it would be interesting to know how you know these things if you actually are sure of your facts, which i doubt! sorry..i did ask a question and your answers seem from a well disjointed veiwpoint but please do prove me wrong!
     
  8. Citronella

    Citronella Karting

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    errr 600pullman, not big on Merc but is that the same as the gullwing merc, anyway there where 2 gullwings with Special Brunei spec AMG running gear, famed as 555's for having 555Bhp, from the outside the cars where orgin, till you spun the motor over and then it was a whole new ball game, AMG had 2 full time mechanics, and they where 2 of the best mechanics ive ever worked with, hope all is well with Hagan and Ingo!
     
  9. Citronella

    Citronella Karting

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    ekkk, i know there where 7 F1's in brunei, but have to have a look at something at my home to see how many blackLMs there where, LMs GTRs Longtails, way cant they just be F1
     
  10. Pav

    Pav Formula 3
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    Many cars are still there. Some are just dieing outside. Pininfarina Bentleys were sold apparently. Regular cars as F355, some F40s and others were exported to NZ, AU etc. Most of bespoke one-offs (made in 5 exemplaries or more) are not fitting the pollution, noise or safety norms as they were made for only one country, moreover for its rulers. They stay there.


    I heard a story i cannot confirm that there is a place where hundreds of tuned MB cars are kept outside, dieing of the climate. Melting inside etc blablabla.
     
  11. SefacHotRodder

    SefacHotRodder F1 World Champ

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    Yes. The Reef... Thats the only thing the cars would be good for. Such a shame
     
  12. Pav

    Pav Formula 3
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    I'm really interested in only 2 vehicles, the Venice Wagon and the Bentley B3. Of course the best thing would be to catch prince Jefri's son and ask him for the complete database in 1998 in some .txt format or something.

    A shame the cars aren't driven anymore... The whole thing happened only 7 years ago and we are already into Barn talks.
     
  13. SefacHotRodder

    SefacHotRodder F1 World Champ

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    At least 3 of the Venice estates are here in the UK. The green one (now silver :( ) is here, another silver one and a yellow one are all here. All my pics are on my other computer but i'll post them when i get back. I'm sure i have some decent pics of the B3
     
  14. Pav

    Pav Formula 3
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    Very nice, thanks.

    Still i don't know if revealing the collection to the public is a good idea but i hope they are tracking the cars they have sold. If some private owns the B3 i would be glad to know on which terms.
    Still the idea of catching Jefri's son is good i think.
     
  15. Peloton25

    Peloton25 F1 Veteran

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    Citronella-
    Thanks tremendously for the comments. :) You're now the 5th individual to confirm the accuracy of this illustration, with a 6th declining to comment. Most claim there were two F1s which were finished like that, and that both were F1 LMs. That would make them LM1 & LM4, listed by McLaren as both having been painted "Black + graphics". I believe that Brunei actually purchased 3 of the 5 customer LMs and only one was painted the traditional papaya orange (LM5). All three seem to still be there unfortunately.

    The image I posted comes from the portfolio website of artist Maurizio Corbi who was a Senior Designer for Pininfarina. He told me that he made the image during his time in Brunei. I assume by your comments that you must have a real photo/s which would show this car. Without a doubt, seeing that would be incredible so hopefully you are willing and able to share. :)

    My knowledge of F1 GTRs in their collection is limited only to one, which was reportedly built as a replica of the LeMans winner for the Brunei Royal Family. I've been told it was based on GTR #09R as McLaren did not wish to sell them the real car which was chassis #01R. This car may wear race number "58" instead of the real car's "59" - at least I heard that from one source.

    Another version of this GTR story claims that Brunei got the real car and that it's McLaren who have the replica. Personally I now believe that McLaren retained ownership of the original car, but have no solid proof either way. I suppose that 1 or 2 other GTRs could have ended up in Brunei as well, but most GTRs are accounted for today - none with any published history referencing Brunei.

    More details on the McLaren collection that was in Brunei would be greatly appreciated from you. So far only one F1 seems to have escaped their grasp. It is a yellow F1 road car (#014) that is currently for sale in Los Gatos, CA.

    >8^)
    ER
     
  16. Z0RR0

    Z0RR0 F1 Rookie

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    wow, this thread has become amazing. I love these kind of stories ...
     
  17. Citronella

    Citronella Karting

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    Cheers Pav for your comments, actually you seem to be pretty well informed, i can certainly believe that what you said seems to be spot-on, it makes sense as your right about the difficultly of shifting the bespoke stuff. During my time in brunei when discussions were on about what to do next with all the cars, a few of the top brass did mention that the bespoke stuff will remain in brunei forever...too awkward to shift plus the fact it would raise some politcal questions about how much money they did waste-spend or however you see it! Yeah i can certainly believe about cars rotting outside, seen that for myself as they where simply running outta space, shame really! Iam surprised to hear they prob sold on the Farina bentleys, but i guess they had so many bespoke bentleys that the farina ones where the least shameful ones to move on. Yeah i agree that revealing the collection might not be the smartest idea but hey, its not like they are spending squillions anymore, and its only geeks like us who are interested in this stuff, i'll get tried of it and move on to another subject sooner or later, anyway theres apart of me that says that if they where prepared to spend silly amounts on cars then they sure in hell must know peeps like us will wanna uncover the secret gems, its a free world and i never signed any keep your mouth shut clause> On the other hand photos was a big No-No but everyone working there where click happy, seen a few photos on the web where i could tell who the source was...cheeky mechanics and some top brass, i'll not tell if you dont!
     
  18. Citronella

    Citronella Karting

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    You really do know your McLaren's Peloton, and i hate to say it but more than i do- Damn your eyes! I can confirm that the 95Lemans winning GTR is in brunei...but as you rightly pointed out its a Carbon Copy replica of the actual car, but its exact to the last detail(interesting to hear about the race number change, have to have a little look at some photos as i never twigged onto that) the replica will do better lap times than the actual as its kitted with a fresh engine. When i first seen it i believed it was the actual racecar as it also wore what seemed to be scrutineers passed ticket but after speaking to a Mclaren mechanic out on a 2 week service visit he did explain it was a carbon copy, totally gorgeous to the last k-nut. Shorty after Mclaren won the championship in 98 a small display of the F1's where gathered for show, so quite a few of the Macs came down from there various locations for a quick spit and polish at the workshop end, it was a pretty cool sight. Its interesting to hear that you believe all Macs still are in the Royal Family ownership, wow thats still quite a collection. Yes there where 3LMs, two in graphics and one in orange, the 2 graphic cars where kept in the workshop garages while i was there, the orange at a certain family member house, a long tail was also kept hidden away in a workshop garage with a slipping clutch awaiting a Mclaren spanner to fly out. I was lucky enough to grab a spin in a F1, as always blagging an excuse to road test, they were not the easiest of car to take out as people would talk- these particular car movements got noticed as the Mclarens had a certain special feeling about them (even the mechanics carried a cool ego that you wished u could be part of) but excuses can be found and situations would sometimes pop up if you where in the right place at the right time. In the early days of Mclaren existance in brunei a certain spanner bent one of these fine machines while out on a HOT test drive, and believe me he was a top notch spanner that just got caught out! Royal peeps where not pleased to say the least! Interesting to hear the artists name of the Graphics LM, I even reconise the buildings in the background as part of the complex. I do have photos but very reluctant to put on the web as it will go million fold over the web, like to keep them for myself! sorry but my piece of brunei i dont really wanna share!

    Various inventories of whats there...or what was once there do exist, but they where held by there respective manufacturers workshop staff and some key top brass, A electronic tagging/tracking system was implemented for the cars within the main garage complex, i dont think the bugs got completely ironed out as there was still holes in the system while searching for a particular known car, to be honest i dont think anyone had a true picture of the numbers as i also heard after leaving brunei that some cars disappeared mysteriously...hmmm just like a murder who dun it novel! well i think ive bored you enough!
     
  19. salegosse

    salegosse Formula Junior

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    Best story's ever...
     
  20. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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  21. Peloton25

    Peloton25 F1 Veteran

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    Citronella-
    Thanks so much for the compliments and for the additional information. F1s are my single greatest passion and I'm driven by that to learn as much as I can about the cars. I also love sharing what I know when I can to open the eyes of other enthusiasts on the lesser known details of these wonderful cars. It's always great to learn things that were not known before too - and there are still a few McLaren mysteries swirling.

    I too, would be interested in hearing a bit more about the longtail you mentioned. I was told that one of the three longtail road cars went to Brunei, but apparently now it's in a private collection in London, and others claim it was never in Brunei at all. I suppose the longtail you speak of could have been a GTR but most were still active in some form of racing up to the point of the Brunei "crash" so it's unlikely in my opinion that any of them made it there.

    Just to clarify one point - Corbi was the artist who created that illustration, but not the one who designed the graphics that were on the cars. That was done by an artist who worked for McLaren at the request of the BRF. There don't seem to be many fans of the look of those cars, even within McLaren. As you well know - Brunei got what they wanted because they were willing and able to pay for it.

    The funny thing about the black LMs, and the reason there was any skepticism involved in their existence, is that McLaren's standard description of the LMs includes this statement:

    "As a tribute to the memory of Bruce McLaren, all the F1 LM's were painted in the same Papaya Orange that was used on his contemporary Formula One and Can Am cars."

    While it's nice of them to say that, and most will believe it to be true - they (accidentally?) contradicted themselves with the release of the book "Driving Ambition - The Official Inside Story of the McLaren F1" by Doug Nye. It included a complete list of the F1 chassis history and contained the info I previously mentioned on the two special F1 LMs that they were finished in "Black + graphics".

    Some people are still in "believe it when they see it" mode, so hopefully real photos of the cars will be released in the future.

    It's funny too that you mentioned the tracking/cataloging system they had for the cars in Brunei. The yellow F1 that came out of their collection still retains an identification sticker relating to that. You can see it in the photos on this page. I find it humorous the tracking number seems to be referenced as the "Magic No". :D

    http://www.siliconvalleyautogroup.com/marques_stock/mclaren_1900/photo_page.html

    Again - thanks to you for all the enlightening dialogue. :)

    >8^)
    ER
     
  22. Citronella

    Citronella Karting

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    Interesting to see the photo's in the link, i see that Schuey signed that car too, there where quite afew cars signed by him and then teammate Eddie Irvine during there visit to brunei, interesting to see that car was signed as i dont remember seeing that car in brunei, maybe that is the touted number eight i never seen, well i'll be damned....it did exist, just goes to show. Yeah there was a Black longtail, again a Mclaren spanner did tell me that the factory made 3Black GT longtails, one kept by the factory, one in Japan and one in Brunei which i very much had my hands on. Interesting to hear its now left Brunei... Hope that carbon clutch was sorted out, wicked slippage i can tell u!
     
  23. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    ^Thank you for confirming the F1 GT was owned by him! :) My gut feeling is that it's still in Brunei.
     
  24. Citronella

    Citronella Karting

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    Thats the model that sat in brunei with the slippy clutch, when i spoke to a Mclaren Spanner he disclosed that 3 examples where made, actually its really cool with the overhangs and its badged as GT on the rear, oh yup its a road going version to answer your last point



     

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