Summary of waterpump threads...lets create the definitive thread | FerrariChat
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Summary of waterpump threads...lets create the definitive thread

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by bpu699, Dec 22, 2015.

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  1. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    Dec 9, 2003
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    wisconsin/chicago
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    bo
    #1 bpu699, Dec 22, 2015
    Alright, I just finished reading EVERY thread that commented on the water pump and its seals. It seems a lot of the threads don't really answer the key questions folks have. I thought, if everyone with experience posted in this thread, we can finally put this issue to rest and clear up some confusion...

    It would be nice t put this issue to rest. Input from the pro's especially appreciated...

    Here are the questions that keep coming up, and the comments I found:

    1) Should you change the water pump seals at each major?

    Rifledriver... Yes!
    Other pro's who's names I don't know... Yes! Usually.
    Quazipsycho... no! Leave it alone.
    Kerrywittig...no! Leave it alone
    Carguy... probably

    The issue stems from the fact that many do-it-yourselfer have had MANY recurrent leaks, despite multiple attempts to correct. At least... those that posted. There may be a silent majority where things went just swimmingly. IF SO< PLEASE POST>

    Assessment: If you are having a pro do it... get it replaced. If you are doing it yourself... do you feel lucky?

    2) If I don't change the seal, what the worst that can happen?

    Some folks mentioned water getting into the oil... causing a failure. Looking at the diagrams, not sure how that would happen as any antifreeze leak SHOULD come out the weep hole.

    Rifledriver posted the same in a thread from 2013 or so...

    If the weep hole is blocked... well, all bets are off... perhaps one can verify the weephole is open?

    IF YOU DON'T CHANGE THE SEAL: Check your oil, get it analysed... see if it has coolant in it... replace your seals!

    Oddly, I couldn't find ANY threads that commented that the motor was dropped due to a leaking waterpump seal that was past its age. Almost every thread with a leaking seal was found AFTER the seal was replaced and failed.

    Perhaps most folks just didn't post?

    3) Which seal should I get?

    Lots of threads on this. And tons of confusion...

    Rifledriver... 2013 thread, "I have replaced over 50 seals and always use the one piece seal..."

    T Ruthlands advice as described by poster... get the same seal you had. Need the serial number...

    Ricambi America... get the same seal you had... take pictures...

    Kerrywittig... used a one piece, couldn't get it to work so went with a two piece. Still leaked.

    Quazipsycho...used both (?), still leaked

    Carguy... no leaks

    So, whats the correct answer? I trust Brian's expertise... is he saying ALL cars can be updated to the one piece seal????

    Can some pro's chime in on this?

    4) Should I pressure test after seal replacement. YES!!!

    But oddly, many folks STILL had leaks AFTER they pressure tested (Kerrywitting/Quazipsycho/etc,etc)

    5) Should I use sealant when installing the seals?

    I found no definitve answer. Does the WSM mention an answer. Many folks who did successful installs don't mention a sealant. Yet, if there was a failure, folks mentioned that you should use a sealant on the shaft and seal to crank surface...

    So, which is it? Also, if you use a sealant, which? Rifledriver mentioned loctite 503 (not sure?) at one point... Others mentioned rtv. If you seal the bearing in, how the heck do you get it out next time?!

    6) So what the heck are the DIY guys doing wrong?! If Brian can install 50 with no leaks... whats the difference in technique?! Whats the magic?


    Lets get this issue documented as definitively as we can!
     
  2. peteficarra

    peteficarra Karting

    Jun 22, 2010
    158
    ontario
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    peter j ficarra
    #2 peteficarra, Dec 22, 2015
    I did my major myself, the first time for me. It was done in 2000 at a Ferrari Dealer in Florida, It had 8000 miles since then. With the motor sitting on the ground and all the naysayers "saying leave it alone" ringing in my ear I did not want to touch it. Well I did look at it thankfully. The rear bearing was shot causing the shaft to wobble inside the pump scoring the pump. I replaced the seals and both bearings. The back bearing requires pulling the case off which was doable. The seals etc. were easy to do and should be done every time the service is done. NEVER OMIT THE INSPECTION AND SEALS.
    I was worried about the cam belts which were like new after 15 years though the bearings were noisy.
     
  3. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    #3 bpu699, Dec 22, 2015
    Glad to hear! We need more reports where everything went as planned...

    Did you use any sealants with the seal install? Which bearing did you use...1 or two piece?

    If your shaft was was wobbling, I am suprised it didn't leak...

    For what its worth, my belts after 10 years looked brand new too... but the rubber was 10 years old...

    Plan to look at the bills from my last service... to see if they specified the WP seal serial number...
     
  4. Total Recall

    Total Recall Formula Junior

    Aug 21, 2014
    324
    East Yorkshire, UK.
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    Dominic Bradley
    #4 Total Recall, Dec 22, 2015
    Hi,

    Not long after purchase, mine was damp around the weep hole and I got a bit of steam on the back window after startup, though no drips ever made it to the garage floor.

    Don`t take too much notice of the part pictures as I don`t remember for sure if it was as shown but what I received worked for my early `86 UK car. It was the water pump seal kit (number 121553) on that page.

    Clutch Parts for Ferrari 365 GT4 BB, 512 & Testarossa - Superformance

    Note that it mentions the parts included.


    I used a thin layer of red jointing compound on the back plate to casing.

    I also replaced the large seal ring on the outlet housing (101023) and the other seal for the pump shaft (121165).

    This was approx 3 years, 5000 miles ago.


    Dominic.
     
  5. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

    Oct 30, 2004
    1,176
    Utah
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    Scott
    #5 qwazipsycho, Dec 23, 2015
    I would like to retract my previous statement, a little. I know I originally said if it isn't leaking don't touch it. However, that is somewhat irresponsible of me. If the car has not had a major service including the Wpump seal I would suggest it be changed. But I believe you should use the seal that was intended. I know Brian has done a bunch of one piece seals successfully, but mine didn't work and, if I remember correctly, you have to modify the impeller to use the one piece on a car that it wasn't intended for.

    All I know is that when I used the original 2 piece seal AND installed it correctly, everything worked fine. No leaks.
     
  6. MonoSpecchio

    MonoSpecchio Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2006
    421
    SoCal in the IE
    #6 MonoSpecchio, Dec 24, 2015
    1. If it has never been done before, or weep hole is clogged, change it. My 1985 was original and the weep hole was clogged with crud and I am very glad I changed mine. Look at the pic of my old seal in my thread...dry rotted cracked and scary.

    2. Weep hole will start dripping (if not clogged) hopefully you notice before timing belt damage. You would then have to Pull the engine again later to do the job.

    3.Yes, my experience too...get the same seal it came with. If it's the 2 piece order part 120948A from T Rutlands. No leaks ever.

    4. Yes. I pressure tested and found no leaks.

    5. I used Hondabond (made by loctite). Go to your local motorcycle supply and ask for it...usually in stock. one of the DIYs tells you which surfaces get coated...can't remember exactly.

    6. I believe the leaks by quazi and Kerry were due to trying to use a 1 piece kit in a car that was originally 2 piece. Rifle knows a way to do it evidently, and Ferrari themselves superseded the old part entirely, but I would stick with what came in your car.

    Good luck!
     
  7. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    #7 bpu699, Dec 26, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well, decided to change the seal... might be 10 more years before the next service... Once I removed the cover I saw that the seal was the two piece with the ceramic rings... The seal, like the belts, looked brand new. Car is in a somewhat climate controlled garage, and has had 6000 miles since its service 10 years ago...

    Plan to post more pics to hopefully help others...

    I will note that the ferrari dealer added a LOT of black sealant... Around the piece that fits the impeller, and the part that fits the case...

    Perhaps thats the key?
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  8. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    #8 bpu699, Dec 26, 2015
    Part of me just wants to put it back together... it looks that good... The last owner threw a lot of money at this car... and it shows...

    Any tips on removing the seal? Does it come out in one piece? Looks like a small gear puller would work.

    Can anyone tell what part number it is just by looking at it? Wouldn't mind ordering the new one before I try to remove the old...
     
  9. MonoSpecchio

    MonoSpecchio Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2006
    421
    SoCal in the IE
    #9 MonoSpecchio, Jan 10, 2016
    Man, that thing looks really clean compared to mine. I'd be tempted to leave it alone if the weep hole is clean and dry.
     

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