sump lining peeling | FerrariChat

sump lining peeling

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by SouthJersey400i, Mar 20, 2014.

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  1. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
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    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
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    Ken Battle
    #1 SouthJersey400i, Mar 20, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Many of you have been following my thread about my timing chain/tensioner replacement. Motor is out and I have lots of pics to post on that thread and on the one started by Fritz about the tensioner material.

    My shop sent the pictures today including some about a concern he has. The pictures I will post here are just about the sump. Apparently, there is some kind of coating on the sump that is peeling and some flakes were on the pickup screen.

    Does anyone have similar experience? Comments? Advice? resolution? Is there really a coating put on the sump at the factory, that sounds like a real bad idea but Aluminum in Italy was always sketchy until more modern times. Could this film just be oil deposits from some past bad maintenance?

    Here come the pics:
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  2. palmer_md

    palmer_md Karting

    Feb 26, 2014
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    Michael
  3. guygowrie

    guygowrie Formula 3

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    I have seen a post somewhere where someone is painting a gold coating into a sump and casing. I think it was to seal the porous aluminum and yes it was to replace the original coating. More than that i cant recall.
     
  4. DaveO_48

    DaveO_48 Karting

    Jul 29, 2013
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    David Odland
    First, this issue has been in the engine for a long time with little detrimental impact. When the "coating" was applied to the inside of the engine it probably had some bubbles and voids that did not flow out as it dried. As the engine oil degrades, nitric and sulfuric acids are formed from combustion byproducts and suspended in the oil. If the oil changes have too much time between them and there is little use these compounds drop out of suspension and find their way to the lower surfaces. Any imperfections in the surface finish will allow the acid to permeate the finish and attack the aluminum.
    If you have ever restored any aluminum grille pieces that were anodized you saw tiny dots on the aluminum that would not clean up. The only recourse is to de-anodize the part. When this is done the tiny dots now look like much bigger pits. When the "dot" was formed by hitting a small piece of debris it fractured the anodizing allowing atmospheric acids to get into the aluminum. Then the aluminum gets eaten away under the anodized surface.This wasn't noticeable before refinishing started. The molding needs to be surfaced (sanded and polished) to remove the pits before it can be anodized again.
    On the sump, oil, the "sealer", and the natural aluminum oxide layer on the surface provide protection. Dirty oil attacks the barriers. It is a good reason to change oil before putting the car up for long periods of non use.
    Before re assemble, clean the interior surface without disturbing any of the finish that is intact. The "flaking" happened after long periods of non use with dirty oil. The agitation from the oil flowing around in the sump knocks the "flakes" loose.
    During use, keep the engine interior as clean as possible. Use a good oil that will keep all contaminants in suspension and change oil before hibernation. Oil is a lot cheaper than engine parts.
    It is an unfortunate fact that these cars all spend an inordinate part of their life in hibernation. The first ten years no one worried about this problem. As the cars age, maintenance gets more involved because of the aging factor. This is just one of the common issues with old cars.
     
  5. wrxmike

    wrxmike Moderator
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    Mar 20, 2004
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    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/vintage-thru-365-gtc4-sponsored-vintage-driving-machines/314913-engine-internal-paint.html

    The V12's engines were coated internally to seal the castings. I would think that the difficulty in re-coating it properly would be greater than the benefits, so I would leave it as it is.

    M
     
  6. DaveO_48

    DaveO_48 Karting

    Jul 29, 2013
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    David Odland
  7. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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  8. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
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    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
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    Ken Battle
    My shop and I agree with posts. DaveO added a good explanation and since I am currently contracted to a major lubricant additive company I hear about these things daily.

    The shop plans to remove loose pieces and not do any more. The pickup screen and filters will take care of the rest.

    My car had 37k miles in first 24 years and 28k miles in last 6 years with me, so hibernation is not currently an issue.
    Thanks all.
    Ken
     
  9. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,679
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
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    Ken Battle
    #9 SouthJersey400i, Apr 4, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  10. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
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    #10 blkprlz, Apr 4, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

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