Don't know if this is the right place for this thread, but I wanted to ask this question for a very long time. Why are modern supercars so heavy ?!? I know they have many safety features, but still, it still seems they are way too heavy. Take for example the LaFerrari. We know that with a full tank of gas it weighs around 1590 kg. Now the engine is around 200-250 kg on its own. The electric motor is around 150. Same for the chassis probably. So where does all that extra weight come from ?!? Can anyone give a detailed response, as in which body part weighs how much ?!
Don't know bout ev but ice I agree. My 550 is 3700lbs pig. Imo a modern streetfighter should weigh in at 3200lb max. Sadly most are pushing almost 4000lbs!
I wish you could order car without all the dumb heavy electronics...entertainment systems. Fake engine sound equipment. Onstar". GPS. Some noise insulation. Seats made for a 400lb guy. Interior gimmicks. Inverter charging stations.
Ordered my CaymanS very carefully, with exactly this in mind: You really don't want the auto-folding mirrors? What about the 18-way electrically-adjustable seats? The whuteveritwuz super-duper stereo system? 20 inch wheels? Auto-adjusting headlights that follow your steering? The memory-autoadjusting steering column? PDK? Some other options I can't recall..... Really? You'll be missing out on so much! It scales a hair under 3,000lbs as I recall, before trading out the brake disks for the aluminum-hat Girodiscs (only a few lbs savings), the Tarrett adjustable rear arms, and the wider one-piece forged 18" Forgelines (less metal, more air, nicer breakaway with that taller sidewall). That's as far as I wanted to take it, but the mass is noticeable compared to the loaded testers I drove. Still not quite as lively as my old 924 and 944, but far nicer to drive overall.
The cayman is one of the few real sports cars left. 458 is 3600 with an average driver! Add in a wife and overnight bag you are near 4000lbs.
My stripped 360 is around 2600 lbs and its sensational fun and a totally different car to drive than your typical supercar. And yet it still has a functional heater for winter, ice cool air conditioning for summer, electrically operated (regular glass side windows), a glass front windshield, central locking in the doors and side impact door beams, emissions compliant sports cats, exhaust valves running on the stock factory optional (CS) sports exhaust, etc. What I'm trying to say is its really not a difficult car to do big miles it. It drives very compliant the way I've set it up and is very predictable. You'd be amazed how much weight is in a standard car, even a Ferrari from 20 years ago had a LOT of fat you could strip. I don't believe for one minute that my car is somehow 'less safe' either. Its got carbon/carbon kelvlar bucket seats with soft impact foam for a very comfortable fit and lumbar cushions too. It runs 3 point harnesses which secure you very tightly and give you great confidence. Unfortunately I just think the industry as a whole has decided to focus on adding more hp (easier to sell !) and to hell with the weight... its why every modern car does nothing for me now. They just feel like driving a video game. All the fun, the personality and challenge has been neutered, sucked and squeezed out of them. May as well be driving a white good... Image Unavailable, Please Login
Most of it comes down to crash protection laws and size of the unit has grown. Compare the size of a 308 and a 458 wish I had a picture of the two side by side because stating the numbers doesn’t really do the difference justice. Without going and looking at the numbers; IIRC the is 12” shorter and 8” narrower 308. I would say that crash protection(law driven chassis design) is the biggest addition to weight. The difference weight wise is about 500 pounds.
Light weight materials are expensive. Power seats that are strong enough for crash standards are too Lots of sound insulation which 98.5% of the purchasers want weighs a lot. North American bumpers and the parts to mount them too weigh a lot. Take a rear bumper off a 456M sometime. Bring a friend, you'll need him. Many people say they want a 2000 LB car...........right up until they drive one.
I'll counter your point with the Lotus Elise and Exige. Ferrari didn't have to add so much weight, but the market wanted more of the luxury/jewelry aspect. The safety aspect could be dealt with through engineering and materials - after all, Ferraris aren't exactly cheap to begin with. It was just cheaper not to, holding the bigger market based upon "affordability" to a pricepoint vs. volume balance.
So much weight is in humdrum items you'd be surprised. Seats are super heavy for very little reasons related to safety, more to do with $$$ Even crap like the foot rest / battery door is heavy gauge steel for the passenger side. Battery tray same, even the roof lining with sound deadening black bitumen tar crap and material glued onto it was around 6kg. The list goes on and on... I stripped over 250kg and didn't loose much in the way of luxury etc. Yes it was hard and it did cost $$$ for some items but I tell you this, many things came down to suppliers just not thinking about how to optimise weight and saving some $. If it was really designed for saving weight they could do it without massive increases in cost. Trouble is it's just easier to simply add more hp. Sigh .. and now we are at cars with 2 tonnes and 1000hp rather than 1 tonne and 500hp... Sent from my CPH2145 using Tapatalk
The foot well panel for the passenger side ot the TR's was aluminum and they get destroyed by people bracing them selves in the car by pressing on them with their feet. Even the steel panels get bent. They really need to be stronger yet. You'd be surprised the regulations for seat strength in the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards as a crash safety item. Can those be met with better materials and engineering? Most likely so but Ferrari is not spending the money. Low cost materials and heavier components cut into budgets less and do not prevent Ferrari from selling cars. It will not change. They have no commercial need to do it differently and it results in a better balance sheet. It has been that way since 1947.
some isn’t safety but NHV reduction demanded by the soft public. The heavy seat also deals with second order harmonics. The dual mass flywheel in a 348 really is not needed and costs 13lbs. Iirc. As trev says many other not needed stuff. Americans are 300lbs now too. They bend metal.
You and Trev want perfect, uncompromising sports cars. Ferrari isn't going to build them, the last 75 years should tell you that. Look elsewhere. I understand world wide there are a couple of hundred of you and no one is interested in catering to such a small group. Trev has done a great job in showing the way for those really interested but do not ever expect a manufacturer to join you, not with a car that mere mortals can afford.
From: https://www.turbo.fr/essai-comparatif-auto/comparatif-voitures-anciennes-ferrari-308-gtb-1979-vs-ferrari-458-italia-2012-125668 Image Unavailable, Please Login modern safety/crash regulations require cars to be physically larger to comply, for instance, have to have room for airbags to deploy, structures have to have "crush" areas to absorb impacts... For example; https://www.reddit.com/r/Miata/comments/hf6kla/how_to_make_a_na_miata_look_giant/ Image Unavailable, Please Login
Further on the Miata, mentioning it because it has a direct lineage for over 30 years: https://www.forcegt.com/car-reviews/mazda-mx-5-1990-roadster-vs-2019-rf-gt-comparison/ its weight has increased over 15% (+149kg/327 pounds!) 1990: 938kg 2019: 1087kg Image Unavailable, Please Login
Both great sports cars. Ferrari 355 was considerably bigger and clients all over the world complained of its size so the 360 was bigger in every dimension. Their client base wants something different and based on sales, waiting lists and sales growth they seem to be giving their customer base what they want.
Take a look at the Alfa 4C, on paper its everything people say they want (well except for the lack of a manual gearbox). Super light weight around 1000kg, and yet it was a flop. I'm sure regulations aren't helping anything, but its far more the market that is driving cars to be heavier than any regulation.
I don't know, maybe its 1.7L turbo 237hp engine was a bit weak? Alfa's reliability was liability... https://jalopnik.com/even-with-the-new-car-supply-shortage-no-one-wants-an-a-1848575002 https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/alfa-romeo/4c/reliability Servicing If it was just down to oil and filter changes, the 4C’s servicing regime would be pretty cheap. The fly in the ointment is a requirement to inspect/check the torque settings of all the bolts holding the subframes and body to the car’s carbon tub. Alfa says it needs to be done at 12, 36 and 60 months – or 12,000, 36,000 or 60,000 miles - and the process will add several hundred pounds to the service bill. Or maybe lack of a dealer network and trouble servicing... https://www.4c-forums.com/threads/alfa-romeo-customer-service-roadside-service.60886/
That is 100% true. Porsche has come very close with the everyday GT3 which is the only trackready trackday car you can buy and they did limited runs of 911 variants that were stripped down for performance. Less is more and those variants commanded big bucks!
