Supercharging the F430 Engine

Not to steal the thread, but for those who know - could you address turbocharging vs supercharging a 430 when answering Tarek or send me to another thread if it has been perviously discussed? I am considering the same. Best

 

Another big difference between supercharging and turbocharging is that the supercharger blower is 'parasitic' whereas turbochargers are not. The supercharger takes power from the flywheel (and therefore engine) to drive it. If I recall correctly, the parasitic loss is about 10% -- though the added power generated by the SC will full compensate the loss. Also, incorrect set up, meaning bolt on, and alignment of belts can produce vibration, though I'm sure Novitec has worked that out.

I can imagine that a Novitec supercharger system is good quality, with a good reputation for reliability. Having said that there are 3 realities one will have to live with after installation;

1. If it breaks or performs sub-optimally, NO authorized Ferrari dealer will have the knowhow or interest in looking at it, repairing it.
2. If it breaks or performs sub-optimally, you're not likely to have peace of mind or find optimal solutions unless Novitec people are in your city, state, country.
3. When you sell your car, potential buyers will fear you're a power monger, probably driving the car into the ground. They will likely offer you less than for a stock car. Thus, if you spend $$ on a supercharger do it for yourself, with no expectation of a value-added return on your car.

Just my opinion, based on my own prior experience of supercharging.

 

PM
2nastie

he twin supercharged both his 430 coupe and his 360 spider.

 

what type of blower does novitec use. if its a n Eaton M112 or the Whiple id say it would be pretty damn awesome. i believe the 360 novitec was pretty disappointing in power out put.

 

My dad contacted one company (I forgot the name, but he is here on F-Chat). They said 2 certified technicians from Germany would fly out here to install. It takes 4 days and costs ~$55K. Is that worth it?

The only disadvantage I could think of is that it could shorten the life of the engine like most turbochargers and superchargers do in a car. Other that that, I couldn't think of anything else.

 

While I appreciate what your saying regarding main dealer servicing point 3 really is an opinion and not based on any facts, its actually wrong. Also I have heard (at least in Germany) that main dealers where still happy to service (and stamp) the book according to Ferrari specs with no bother - not sure how FNA would take it though.

The cost of supercharging or turbocharging a 360 runs about $40,000 to $60,000 depending on the sophistication and level of engine changes required by the conversion (such as forged pistons).

Lets face it these extensively upgraded cars are highly rare and have performance figures close to that of an Enzo (and with a little bit of weight reduction) better power to weight ratios too. I have in all honesty never ONCE seen a converted car sell for less than stock car (this 100% truth), not a single car! Its simply not reality because they are so rare and the power is 50% higher than stock you'll always get interest from enthusiasts - regardless of horror of some purists. It is is however true that you wont get your $60k back but typically your car will be worth what it was + half the price of the conversion. So if your car is worth $100k and you spend $60k you'll like get somewhere around $130k back.

In some cases owners have simply removed the superchargers before sale and sold the kit for half the price privately. Thats the great thing about the Novitec supercharger kit is that it doesnt require any internal engine work so its just a bolt on. Very easy to remove.

I would also point out it makes it harder to sell your car but Ferrari's (unless its the waiting list variety) are not that easy to sell privately for cash in the first place so if you want serious hp its not as bad as its being made out to be. A bit pricey bit so is everything else in the world of Ferrari.

 

The only point I'd like to add to this is try to stay away from the body modifications. None of them seem to really gell with the 360/430 and if you do change your alloys keep the originals. Keep the car looking as stealth/original as possible for the best resale values later on...

 

upgrade to a scuderia; its cheaper, gives 510 hp; and has a warranty. also a better starting point for serious mods imo.

 

Performance kit 3, Carbon airbox, two air filters, modified ECU, modified
fuel curves, higher rev limiter 8,850 rpm (8,500 rpm stock), 513 hp (490
hp stock), 351 ft-lbs, +4 mph top speed (200 mph) $9,990

Good lord.
Ten Thousand Dollars for an airbox, 2 filters and a hacked ECU.
Thats some incredible **** right there.

 

IMHO supercharging is FAR superior to turbocharging. Turbos give a "peaky" power delivery, whereas supercharging retains a linear torque curve as engine speed rises.

 

Have you considered turbos? Much more efficient power adder:

www.heffnersperformance.com

 

Novitec uses centrifugal superchargers, which I am not a big fan of. They do make nice peak numbers up top, but don't help down low. The power curve is nowhere near as flat as a screw-type supercharger will deliver and generally not as good as a turbo either.

The real plus side is it's a kit and everything is already worked out so the car won't be down very long. If that is not a concern, you could probably do better on both price and performance having a custom system build. I'm currently doing the 3rd supercharger system on my 308. The first was good and made about 360hp, the sencend really good and made about 540hp, the new one should yield about 750hp....hp in an addiction.

 

It really depends on the type of supercharger. All OEM supercharger applications are positive displacement type superchargers (roots or screw type). These types provide boost at all rpm and very wide, usable power. Many aftermarket kits, including Novitec, use centrifugal supercharger because they are easier to package, but they produce a power curve at least as peaky as a turbo, often motor peaky….which is why they are not ever used in OEM applications.

 

I'm referring to the sudden surge of power that turbos tend to deliver in my experience, and the drop off of power at the top end. Superchargers I've tried have not done this.

 

Centrifugal superchargers sure do. A Centrifugal compressor has a fairly narrow rpm operating window, about ½ that of a piston engine, so it simply can not work well over more than ½ a piston engine’s rpm range.

With a turbo you have 2 choices, you can cover the top ½ and make great power to redline at the expense of any gains below ½ redline. Or you can bring the turbo in at about ¼ redline and cover nicely to about ¾ redline then live with the power dropping as the engine’s needs exceed the compressor’s capacity. 80's turbos chose A, while more recent versions tend to be B and the fancier set-ups are twin turbos that have 1 of each.

With a centrifugal supercharge the only choice you have is to cover the upper 1/3 of the engine’s power band. The reason is that with a supercharger, the drive ratio between the engine and compressor is fixed, spin the engine faster, the compressor spins faster. The problem however is that while the engine’s air needs are linear with rpm, a centrifugal compressor’s output is exponential with rpm, so you really need a variable drive ratio to make it work right. A turbo with a wastegate or boost controller has a variable drive ratio, but it’s much harder to do with a supercharger, although some have tried over the years.

All OEM superchargers are positive displacement designs because the output is linear with rpm and therefore a good match to the engine’s needs. So the Ford, GM, Mercedes, Aston Martin, or whatever you may have driven was a positive displacement supercharger and probably worked really well.

 

tarek, so unfair, you just get to walk in and get one! o well I cannot wait to see your pictures... enjoy and if you do supercharge the f430... well damn that would be pretty wild

 

Generally,
Superchargers benefit at the lower RPMs while Turbocharger's benefit at higher RPMs.

Why you would want to consider Turbocharging a high compression ratio engine like the 430 is beyond me, you'll be changing the whole characteristics of the engine especially denying the bottom end.

Forced induction has enough problems with reliability and slapping a turbo onto an engine like the 430 is borderline mental. Note that aftermarket tuners usually change out internal engine parts to de-stroke the engine prior to attaching forced induction items, but then you're into blasphemous territory.