Suspension and Brake Upgrade Time

Just put the Saner kit on . . . had to make several spacers to prevent the rod ends from binding under full suspension droop (stock shocks FYI).

Didn't come with the collars that prevent the bar from sliding sideways . . .after a couple of test drives I could see the bar had slid over and there was some rubbing on the rod ends due to the extreme angle . . . ordered some collars from McMaster that should work.

Mike, I didn't see any pic's of the collars on your installation . . . do you have them?


Thanks,

Sean

 

I have them on the rear, but couldn't find room for them on the front. Here's a pic of how I have them against the rear bushings, and a closeup of a collar itself. I bought these from John at Saner. (Yeah, I know it needs undercarriage cleaning!)
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Mike,
Looks like Saner's web address is no longer functional.

I'd like to get some of these collars too. My rear bar has slid over to one side, didn't realize there was a fix!

Do you have any current contact info for Saner?

Thanks,
Greg
77 308

 

Greg, those are just off the shelf split collars. They can be ordered thru McMaster-Carr or bought at any local bearing place. Measure your bar diameter with a caliper and order some. They cost a few bucks a piece.

Spang

 

Thanks Spang..

I'll do that..

Greg

 

Hey all,

I machined away the standard McM collars on the front like this . . . FYI my fronts were 1" and rears were 7/8" (rears worked with no mod's).

Had to make several spacers to stop the heim joints from binding on the swaybar or bolt heads at full droop . . . I wrote down the dim's if anyone wants them but I think my rebuilt Konis droop more than stock 'cause the tie rod ends hit the stock swaybar at full droop at about a full wheel turn . . . not quite as bad with the Saner though 'cause you can shorten the drop link.

Just did my first test drive with the collars on . . . I like.

Having to keep an eye on the oil pressure gauge on right handers . . . gonna be doing a search on dry sump systems . . . hehe.

Also just bent the inner fender lip "again" being too spirited on some really bumpy roads . . . fixed it with a pair of pliers . . . there went my concourse trophy!!!! (NOT)

One more thing . . . I've had the rev limiter at 7700 and I've now got about 25 hours on my new motor (compression 180, 183, 183, 180 on back bank . . . also checked head torque and valve clearances . . . one of the nuts "might" have moved a tiny bit) . . . it's going to 8200, maybe 8500 yeehah.

Got to get together with some of you So Cal guys.

Sean
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Yeah, that's the same size I have, and the same problem I had with clearance to put them on the front bar. I didn't think of machining (or filing) them down.

 

It appears they let their domain expire and someone else snapped it up. Too bad.

 

Mike I was talking with Walt P at the recent meet at Giovanies and he seemed to think I may have shocks from the same bad batch. I bought the car with them already installed. Please take a look at the attached photo as it looks like I will also be having to buy another set. Thanks.
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pitbull, there is a very good thread on this site where a Fchatter fitted a 308 with a dry sump system. Do a search with drysump as the keyword.

I have over 7000 miles with QA-1 shocks and springs with no clearance problems or issues at all. I didn't experience any excessive settling either. I think Mike may have gotten a bad set, but it looks like others are having the same problems.

Spang

 

I have been trying to get a hold of them to help me get some sway bars for my mondial with no luck.

 

luckydynes,
do you have phone # or e-mail addy for John Carlson at Saner? Thanks!

 

Thanks, did that last night . . . not sure I want to take that on right now . . . what to do, what to do.

Sean

 

Hey all who are trying to get a hold of John @ Saner . . . I left him a message on a phone number I got from info . . . the address is correct when you do an internet search but I think the area code had changed or something like that.

Anyway, I left him a message specifically about what I wanted and he called me back . . . one time it might of been a day or so but he is busy. Also, I think he kinda wants to go thru distributors which is what I did since I was just able to go pick them up.

If you go through a distributor, you may just wanna get the collars from McMaster and mod the front ones like I did . . . John said use the collars (obviously) . . . some might tell you they're not req'd.

BTW, the phone number I called had a message saying it was Saner. If you can't find it, post again and I'll dig up the number I called.

Good luck!!!

Sean

 

Do all the coil over kits require some carving of the front control arms?

What about JRZ$ and Konis?

Thanks,

Sean

 

John Carlson's numbers at Saner Performance (office and shop but I'm not sure which is which) are (772) 873-9222 and (772) 708-8977

 

ALL of them that I've ever heard of, including Varishock, QA1, Koni adjustables, and also whatever Nick at nicksforzaferrari.com is selling. But it's not a big deal... been there, done that, as have many others here. You can see the small amount that needs to come off (and in many cases you can actually get by with even less) at http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=134610539&postcount=38

 

Let me clarify -- the SHOCKS were not bad... they were fine until the SPRINGS damaged them and rubbed through the bodies. The SPRINGS were not perpendicular to their ends so they rubbed at one end. See post #132 in this thread that shows the "tilt" to the springs which caused them to rub on the shock body. I've had the Eibach springs on there after I disgustedly threw away the QA1 springs, and they've been on for more miles than the QA1s were, with NO evidence of rubbing. I'd NEVER recommend QA1 anything after the way they treated me. Go Eibach.

 

Also, if your springs haven't gone through to the point of causing the shocks' oil to leak out (it's just a matter of time if you don't intervene), and you're not ready to buy different springs and/or have your shocks rebodied, Energy Suspension makes "coil isolators" which are supposed to keep the not-quite-perfect springs off the shock and prevent the problem you've been having. You can see them at www.energysuspension.com/pages/sboots.html

 

No, the higher end stuff can be set-up to bolt-in, it just a question of the correct spring retainer on the bottom and the correct spacing on top. I knew when I bought my ohins I would have to carve a bit because the shock I bought has the reservoir built in giving it a pretty larger top dia. However there was an ohnis install using a remote reservoir shock on a 328 that dropped right in....search the old achieve. Other models of ohins, penske, carrara, ect. can all be ordered to bolt-in, you just need to tell them what you need or even just sent a pic of the stock shock installed so they can see where the problem is when you order.

 

Does anyone happen to have the dimensions, lengths etc. for the mondial3.2's sway bars?

 

FYI: The Saner bars are excellent IMHO and easily adjustable. Definitely get the drop links and split collars when you get the Saner adjustable bars.

 

What spring rates are currently on the car?
Also what is the inclination angle of the shocks and struts?
I can guess on the fronts, but I have no idea of your rear configuration.

John

Ok John

Now that my car is almost totally disassembled and other of life's distractions have subsided I finally got around to getting "some" of the information you wanted.

Once again these are special built for Maserati by Bilstein coil over struts.
F R

springs Front 140-60-200 Rear 140-130(main) 100-50-35(tender)

shocks Front 450 200 Rear 350/100

part # Front 57149 Rear 57150195287


I do have "some" pictures available


Bob S.

 

SUSPENSION VERSION 2.0
--------------------------
Alas, not familiar with your car specifically but am familiar with modded suspension and shocks/springs in the Euro-spec 1985 308QV on WGI and LRP. All suspension bushings are the G version from Energy Suspension. The shocks are Nick Forza's dual adjustable shocks and initially 300 lbs front and 250 lbs rear springs with stock sways.

This setup had too much bounce and had to set the shocks at near their highest settings for the track. The problem at lower shock settings was rear bounce like an old heavy Caddy and in the end the high settings wound up blowing out the front left shock and the rear shocks became 'soft' after quite a few track days. i think the downhill onto the straight blew out the front shock and the rears just got soft over time. Obviously i was asking the shocks to do the work of what was needed, which was stiffer springs.


SUSPENSION VERSION 3.0
-------------------------
In late 2005 to early 2006 before track days we sent in the shocks to be rebuilt. The car at this point weights 2901 lbs wet with driver and 1/4 tank of gas. Weight distribution is set at a good balance, though might dial in a bit more front for 2007 season.

We upped the springs to Hyperco 400 lbs front and 350 lbs rear (plus helper springs to avoid spring float and whatnot), changed stock sways for Saner 1-inch front and 7/8-inch rear (3-way adjustable and drop links and split collars). With this setup the shocks are set at much lower settings.

Performance wise, she is indeed stiffer YET is more forgiving as the shocks are not forcing a high reduction of suspension travel (as with VERSION 2.0) and simply doing their job of dampening. While i choose not to give too many specifics about changes made to optimize the settings for each track (sorry and all, but my time and advice will soon go to paying customers), this overall setup is working extremely well for both street and hard track use.

Harder is not ALWAYS faster. Add to that the changes that need to be made for rain versus dry conditions... In the end VERSION 3.0 is a keeper as have had rain and dry days at both WGI and LRP, with quite a few laps around LRP in the VERY wet/rain conditions proving she can easily handle things and still maintain impressive mechanical grip for the given track conditions.

Have some, but not as much data as LRP concerning WGI in the rain, but have ok damp track data. Only had one session in the hard rain at WGI and had a mechanical failure of my driver's side windshield wiper (a loose bolt, easy fix) but when i went back out the track was closed for the remainder of the day. Have a lot of dry track data for both tracks. Alas, no data for Pocono at this time.

Hope the above helps as there is a lot of $$$$ and time invested there to find the solutions. Am now continually gathering information via personal experience and a data acquisition unit. Seat of pants is good and all, though hard data is King in helping me fine-tune solutions. Will eventually be offering services to aid those looking to improve their 3x8s (and perhaps Mondials and the like) via suspension mods.

 

Thanks for the reply but I was actually directing my post at John a.k.a spang308. I asked him a question many many months ago and only now got the information he needed to answer my question.

Bob S.