Suspension and Brake Upgrade Time

Mike,
You think the QA-1 Springs are "less than great", shall we say?

2 of my 4 are QA-1s (Varishock didn't make either the 10" or 12", I forget.)

I wonder if that's part of my "leaking shock" problem? (Due to side loads). Since all 4 shocks leaked, but only 2 springs are QA-1s, probably not.

Greg

 

Just got my Mondial back from Norwood who put in a set of adjustable perch Konis from Carobu using the readily available, inexpensive and interchangable Eibach sprngs. Raised the rates and lowered front and rear (see profile pic) to keep factory street alignment. Since the car is not routinely tracked and used for family trips, a good ride quality was desired so spring rates were increased about 50# per corner over stock; it is easy to change the springs later for other uses. Hill Engineering 15mm spacers also used at the rear. Steering response improved (the major goal) and corner roll reduced more than I thought; the ride remained taut but not jarring, I guess due to the longer wheel base.
Due to the shock tower top mount, lowering a Mondial can be done one of two ways: buy the sport Konis and modify the top mount ($$$$), or have the current shocks re-sleeved with adjustable perches ($$$).
The brakes were upgraded to drilled Brembos with s/s lines. The s/s lines also improved the response feel more than I thought, and seem well worth it.
Just my experience so far.
best
rt

 

Car looks great!

Dave

 

Mike why didn't you go with Varishock's springs?

 

Thanks Mike, I've been through the entire thread but it's been a while. I'm about to do the fronts first to correct the "nose up" of the car. Then I'll address the rears.

 

Just took my rear wheels of to change water pump and belts and found the same problem. I had been experiencing a rattle from the rear so now I known the problem. Its great to have this forum otherwise I would have been chasing around forever for a fix.

 

Gentlemen,

Any updates on how your rides are with the different approaches and solutions used? I am especially interested in the longevity of the products and final decisions on set ups.

My own experience, was close to what Mike Charness, SPANG308 etc. faced. It was most instructive reading your posts and comments. I need to learn more!

Thanks.

 

So how about it guys? Follow up?

 

Well after Henry did all the research,
I went the QA1 route with Eibach springs.
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The Eibach springs I used were
1000.250.325
1200.250.275

325lb front and 275lb rear.
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In retrospect, having driven my car at normal everyday speeds around town,
as well as driving it all out for a few hundred miles on some of the nicest twisty roads around, I'd have to say that for everyday driving the combo works out great.
But for all out performance driving, I'd up the spring rates to 400lb front and 350lb rear.

I ended up raising the front of my 308 a little because I pulled out a fender lip with the tire going into a sharp turn very hot.

I feel that by going to the higher spring rates, I'll be able to lower the car once more, and have more fun playing with the newer Ferraris.

Here is how the car looks with the suspension mods.
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Dave, what brake package do you have installed? BTW, your setup looks great!

 

I have had zero issues with the QA1 shocks and springs. I agree with Dave that 400lb. springs may be in my future. Car currently has 250 rear and 350 fronts and I also had some very light tire rub issues up front. I raised the ride height a touch and the problem has gone away. My car is still 1" lower than stock all around.
I have yet to put bigger sway bars on the car. I will wait to make any spring changes until they are installed. My feeling is I may be able to get away with the 350 fronts with larger bars front and rear to control the amount of body roll and possibly lower the car back down to where I originally had it set.
The ride on the street is great and the handling is balanced nicely with a hint of understeer. That is the main reason I don't want to increase the front spring rates. I'm concerned the car is going to start to plow with more spring on the front.
I'm planning on doing a track day next month. I'll keep you posted.

John
P.S. Dave your car looks awesome. I was going to use Eibachs just because I like the red springs although they do make a quality product as well. Looks nice.

 

The brakes are basically stock.
I just rebuilt each caliper with an inexpensive Porsche kit
and replaced my worn rotors with cross drilled Brembo's.
The pads I have been using are EBC Green Stuff,
which have been fine on the street, but I'm thinking about a little different compound for playing with the big boys.
During the rebuild I added Goodridge stainless steel brake lines,
as my stock lines were showing their age.

Mike, I know about the dust shields.
I was holding off until I could fabricated cooling vents and ductwork to cool the brakes, but I haven't had time to do so.

After playing with 360s and F40s it's obvious that a brake upgrade is due.
I had to brake much earlier going into the turns with my stock brakes.
Now the question is, do I bite the bullet and buy a big brake kit,
or being the frugal Ferrari guy that I am, do I machine a couple of adapters and fit a brake set of my choosing?
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Hard to say what is better. The route i choose is well documented here (Brembo kit front with SLOTTED rotors for front. The rears calipers are stock but the rotor is alu hat floating Fchat sponsor Girodisc slotted rears. As for pads, stock Brembo DS1100 that came with them front and DS3000 rear.

Fluid is Motul 600 and brake likes are Goodridge. i also upgraded to the Power Brake One-Way Valve available from Durable 1.

At Lime Rock Park and NHIS i can easily start to hard brake at the 2 board at the end of the straights and i have NEVER felt brake fade, ever! Naturally the front heat shields are gone but i have done ZERO piping of air to the front or rear rotors. Alas, i wrote down the temps of the brake rotors/calipers and they got up to 330F after a long session at NHIS where the brakes are used much more often than at Lime Rock Park.

Will be trying a different line at NHIS so will be beginning the hard brake somewhere betweem the 2 and 1 board, though odds are closer to the 2 than the 1.

Added info:

NHIS
Rotors at 330F
Track Temp 100F
Air Temp 75F
Condition: Dry weather, 65% humidity under partly cloudy skys

Hope this helps.
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Make some adapters... And make my lazy arse an extra set! To put it in my terms:
"Being the frugal Ferrari guy that I am, do I design & have made a couple of adapters and fit the brake set sitting at my house or sit around and do nothing?"

 

i think Chris or ??? used 348 or 355 calipers with a custom adapter with good results. Of course larger brakes means going with 17-inch rims. Guess when i think 'going cheap' the brakes are among the LAST things i think of.

 

Both the Brembo kit and the Girodisc kit work with stock 16 inch rims. A home made 360 or 355 kit can be made to work with 16s as well. I have 360 calipers with custom hats and off the shelf slotted rotors off the rear of a cup car on my QV with stock 16 inch rims. Fits perfectly.

John

 

I'd be interested in any leg work or info you could provide on using 355 or 360 calipers and such.

At this point we know that the Brembo kit # 1A1.5004A
uses a 313mm x 28mm rotor
Brembo Lotus 4 piston calipers with sequentially sized pistons (2 x 36/40mm)
And will clear 16" wheels.

 

I used readily available race rotors that measure 12 3/16 inch in diameter by 1.10 inch thick. Comes out to 309.63 mm by 27.94 mm. F355s use 310 mm rotors stock which converts to 12.21 inches.

Ferrari 360 calipers are the same as the Brembo Lotus calipers used in the kit.

The 355 calipers are different and I dont have much experience with them other than to know the piston size is different than the 360s and they are lug mount rather than radial mount.

I essentially built a Brembo GT kit out of some take off 360 calipers from my buddys 360 that we did a huge brake upgrade to. He gave me the calipers as he had no need for them. The 360 rotors wont work due to the offset being way off and the diameter being 330mm that wont clear the stock rims.
I took the calipers and rotors that I purchased and had a local machine shop make me mounts and hats out of 6061 T-6 aluminum with the offset from the stock 308 rotors. Fit perfectly on the first try and I could not be happier with the brakes right now. Stops NOW with zero fade. I am using Ferodo DS 3000 pads front and rear.

Good luck,
John