News

Suspension upgrade 348

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by fatbillybob, Jan 7, 2004.

  1. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    16,627
    socal
    If you followed my thread on suspension upgrade a while back here are some pictures of what has been done so far. This is a picture of the Delrin bushing I lathe cut and placed in the A-arms and the shock mount bushings.
     
  2. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    16,627
    socal
    a different bushing view
     
  3. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    16,627
    socal
    bushing in lower a-arm in car
     
  4. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    16,627
    socal
    Oh well... the rest of the pictures:
    Rob S AKA rexrcr revalved shocks and springs
    suspension photos
    shock bushing in shocks
    cut top shock mounts
    final ride height etc...

    are all too big for this board. It seems that my digital minimum size capture is too big and i do not know how to make it any smaller. Sorry. Anyway, Rob S, did a great job on the shock revalve and new springs. I have not hit the track yet but will report on that. Rob did a full race set-up for me since that is my purpose. He set me up with new springs and modifided the upper spring perches for the smaller diameter lighter spring units. These units are very short relative to OEM. There is a huge advantage with the new units since they do not bind like oem's on the spring perchs. So you can do very quick 15 minute ride height changes! I no longer have to fight the oem springs. This alone is worth the price. For all you guys with 348's sitting on 15 year old oem shocks you have to revalve. I did not realize how bad my shocks were until I recieved the new units. All of a sudden I had dampers as Ferrari had intended. My old ones basically lost all their charge and were worthless. My quick laps around the block put a big smile on my face. So I'm off to corner weight and align and will report to FC after my next trackday. The rest of the car is set-up typical challenge style as low as it will go with appropriate suspension settings. If someone can tell me how to get my files smaller I'll post pictures of the set-up above.
     
  5. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    11,384
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    The Butcher
    I want to see the photos!!!

    In microsoft photo editor, open the photo, at the top click on "Image", then click "resize", them Type "640" into which ever dimension is bigger, click "OK". The picture will be the right size to post. You need to save it, I usually do a "save as" and rename the smaller pic, that way you still have the higher resolution big version too.
     
  6. Corsa

    Corsa Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    108
    Stockholm
    Full Name:
    Peter
    Do those bushings fit the 328?
    Any measures available?

    Ciao
    Peter
     
  7. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    16,627
    socal
    Thanks for the software help. Here are more pictures.

    This one is the shock end with the new delrin bushing.
     
  8. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    16,627
    socal
    here are the Rob S. aka Rexrcr revalves shocks with springs.
     
  9. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    16,627
    socal
    forgot to note on the pic above the recut top perch to accomodate the smaller diameter springs and helper springs
     
  10. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    16,627
    socal
    here are more a-arm pictures with new delrin bushings
     
  11. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    16,627
    socal
    close up a-arm
     
  12. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    16,627
    socal
    Sorry for the dark image but that's life. You can see the entire shock set-up. You can also see how nice this is with the spring below the helper spring and well off the perch. This makes for that very quick adjusting I posted about earlier. Rexrcr's design is very good. There is still plenty of adjustment for higher ride height but you can also get pretty low.
     
  13. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    16,627
    socal
    This is the rear of my car on slip plates. You can see about a fingers width to the fender. I have full suspension travel just barely. We will see if there is rubbing when moving dynamically.
     
  14. Noelrp

    Noelrp Formula Junior

    Aug 30, 2001
    630
    SSF
    Full Name:
    Noel
    Very nice! Thanks for sharing.

    Regards,

    -noel
     
  15. goyal99

    goyal99 Karting

    Mar 5, 2002
    185
    Upstate NY - USA
    Full Name:
    V K
    BillyBob (sorry a bit off topic but related...)

    Are you using a stock brake setup on your car ?? If anything other than stock can you please send some info this way??

    I'm interested in doing an aftermarket upgrade on my brakes setup....I'd like to go with bigger (preferably drilled) rotors and calipers....Any suggestions??

    BTW, not interested in Ferrari parts and prices...

    Regards - VK
     
  16. BrentC

    BrentC Formula Junior

    Aug 13, 2003
    278
    VK,

    I have Carbon/Kevlar pads available for your car for either street or track. Much better prices than Ferrari original parts. Also, I may be able to point you in a direction for rotors, etc. PM me or e-mail at bcardani@dexmllc.com if interested.

    I'll have the pads on sale at Moroso during Cavallino Classic if you will be there.

    Best regards,
    Brent
     
  17. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    16,627
    socal
    VK,

    I'm looking at my big brake options too. I also am not keen on Ferrari prices....actually brembo. Also, I can't get the straight scoop from Brembo on what calipers etc... So far there is a small granturismao kit, 355C kit F-40/F50 combo in addition to the OEM brembo caliper on 11" rotors the same size as the ATE teves OEM caliper. I do not know if there are specific calipers that fit the 348 or if there are specific calipers that fit with the 13" rotors via an attachment plate. If the best 355C million dollar unobtainable calipers are just some reasonably priced brembo number caliper and an unreasonably priced attachment plate I could just make attachment plates. My thinking is that only the OEM's make a caliper to specifically fit an applicationand I do not know if the 355C calipers are like that. After market guys are more likely to have fewer calipers and multiple attachment plates to fit many fitments situations. If you find out anything on brakes let me know. I may also be willing to go in with you on custom made parts like attachment plates to get the costs down. I may actually cut my own plates and have them heat treated but I have too many projects right now. I also am not in love with brembo per se. I would entertain Wilwood and AP and maybe some others. It would be important to solve the parking brake issue with the rears. I would think that you would have to do both is 13 " rotors. I'm not sure if a proportioning valve would be able to keep up with such a front reat discrepancy. I'm also a fan of adjustable proportioning valves as a way to maximize the potential of what you have stock. I think Tires may be more important than the actual calipers and you could maximize the braking by having stickier tires up to a point. Also the proportioning valve can dial in the brake bias for your driving style. There is a rear to front weight transfer and you want to be able to threshold brake up until rear lock-up. and that is the best you can do. If you had giant rear calipers and rotors and you got instant lock-up you would have worst stopping distances than stock. So just because it is bigger is not always better!
     
  18. goyal99

    goyal99 Karting

    Mar 5, 2002
    185
    Upstate NY - USA
    Full Name:
    V K
    Thanks for your explanation BillyBob....I will probably need new tires soon so I will follow your advise on wider tires. What sizes are you running on the Speedlines??? Any recommendations??

    I also called a few local racing places to get ideas on brake upgrades but none was able to help....However I have connections with Dyson Racing (of ALMS fame), who have a racing shop in town and I will talk with them and let you know. Also there was someone in this forum (Phillippe in Europe, I think) who has done the 355C brake upgrade you're talking about...I'm not clear on the specifics but I will send him an email requesting more info.

    Brent: I think Carbon/Kevlar parts are probably out of my price range since I'm not looking to spend a small fortune on upgrading my brakes...My brakes are okay right now but not great. I wish I could modify my Porsche brake setup to fit the 348. I'd rather spend my money on engine mods at this point but I realize brakes are important (and often neglected) upgrade to the 348.... Do you have a website for the parts you're talking about???..I will also be at the Cavallino Classic later this month arriving on Thursday night. Maybe I'll see you on Friday at Moroso.

    All the best - VK
     
  19. rexrcr

    rexrcr Formula 3

    Nov 27, 2002
    1,572
    Kalamazoo, MI
    Full Name:
    Rob Schermerhorn
    Brembo components as fitted to factory F355 Challenge are common major parts (caliper, rotor, pad, hat to rotor fasteners). The rotor mounting hat is most likely per application, though not high-tech expensive.

    The caliper is radial mount, and there is a simple but very strong and proper adapter. 348 and F355 uprights are close enough that the caliper mount adapter is the same.

    I noted in a different post that "Philippe's" system is the real-deal accurate with screw-in wheel stud conversion and aluminum wheel nuts.

    IMO, before engineering a new system, get price and availability options first from StopTech, Brembo, Alcon and Willwood. Simple on paper, time and cost consuming in reality.

    BTW, factory F355 Challenge parking brake is first gear.


    Note to VK: I think you're confusing "carbon/Kevlar" brake pads with carbon/carbon brakes. There's a $10,000 difference.


    Best regards,

    Rob Schermerhorn
     
  20. goyal99

    goyal99 Karting

    Mar 5, 2002
    185
    Upstate NY - USA
    Full Name:
    V K
    Thanks for the clarification Rob on the F355 Challenge brakes for the 348....
    Do you know of any Ferrari vendors that carry the 355 conversion or do I need to contact Brembo etc and source the parts individually..

    Regards - VK
     
  21. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    16,627
    socal
    VK,

    RexRcr is correct on the rear challenge no parking brake. Personally I use my parking brake all the time. It really helps when you are trying to get your car up an open trailer which is generally steeper than an enclosed one. The open trailer drag much better when the rear weight is over the tongue. As a single driver/pit crew to the track I have relied on the quasihelp of others to direct me up the ramps 4 times only to have 4 incidents of almost dropping of the trailer once, scraping wheels on fenders, scraping fenders agains trailer fenders etc... So now I move part way up a ramp use the park brake and look myself and ignore others around me. If I winch up my car winches always wrap cable whereever they want. Since I have a full spool of wire rope it binds on the rope guides. So I have to lock the parking brake and adjust the rope travel. I now don't get any dents dings or scrapes. I'll use my parking brake to help me feather the clutch while slowly moving up and down an alignment rack when I don't know if I can clear. There are lots of things like this where the P brake is useful. In any event if you do any trailering parking brake is needed IMHO. Around town 1st gear is fine if you have a streetcar.
     
  22. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    16,627
    socal
    Here is an adjustable end link I made to replace the oem ones. They are a pain to make. First there is a mis-match between the a-arm attachment and the roll bar attachment. That means you can use left and right rodends on a common turnbuckle. Also stock sizes are just too big. I need to find stock ones from a honda and modify. Otherwise the process is weld left and right handed rod to spherical bearings. Cut some turn buckle to size and square the ends on a mill. One jam nut is all you need. I could not find bearings to fit specifically so I made delrin bushings again those are the white things to hold the bearings in relative positions.
     
  23. Philippe

    Philippe Karting

    Nov 2, 2003
    68
    Brussels, Belgium
    VK, you have e-mail. Philippe.
     
  24. BrentC

    BrentC Formula Junior

    Aug 13, 2003
    278
    VK,

    Rob is right - I have Carbon/Kevlar pads (not rotors and pads like the 360CS or Enzo), so they are very reasonably priced. Check my website at www.dexmllc.com and call, e-mail or pm me. I will have a set at Cavallino and will be in the paddock at Moroso selling, so if you are interested let me know. Remind me of this thread if we speak and I'll even give you a discount.

    Hope to see you in Florida.

    Best regards,
    Brent
     
  25. RobS

    RobS Formula Junior

    Feb 18, 2004
    280
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Rob S.
    I cant see your pics
     

Share This Page