Synth oil... leaks or not (ONLY real experience vote)

Does anybody remember the thread on the old Fchat, with JRV, I believe, argueing that a properly built ferrari should NOT leak at all, and that if there was a leak, it should be fixed. Other's were argueing against the cost of fixing vs. adding more oil. Escalated into a bit of a flame war, IIRC.

Dom

 

JRV was right. I have had 6 Ferraris over the years and have never had one that had a leak that I was not able to stop with new seals/gaskets or retorquing an engine part.

 

I said that (maybe JRV did too?). I kind of reiterated that here too. I was very indignant and contened that no cars are designed to leak, so if yours does it can be fixed so it won't.

A lot of replies said that yes, they ARE designed to leak which struck me as a really bad attitude towards maintainence. If a shop did a major on my car and it leaked where it didn't before, or continued to leak, I'd be very mad. In the least, they should explain where the leak is, why it's leaking and what it would take to fix it. Granted if you need a new block or head, living with a minor leak is no big deal.

Ken

 

Found the thread I was thinking about:

http://70.85.40.84/~ferrari/discus/messages/251280/180692.html

 

Ah; I said that too in a different thread I guess.

Ken

 

I use nothing but synthetic in the following cars which I have had or own currently.

Saabs - 1974 LE 1979 EMS, 1980 Turbo, 1986 Turbo
Fords - 1947 6 cyl, 1947 V8 conv., 1956 1/2 Ton V-8
1986 Taurus. 1990 Taurus SHO
Others - 2004 Acura, 1994 Mitsubishi, 1967 330GT, 1995 Buick Estate Wagon

None leak abnormally, those which did leak when acquired did not change.

Cheers
Warren

 

Some what realated, in 1984 I bought a new harley. It didn't leak with castrol in it, but would weep oil out the rocker shafts with other brands. I switched it back and forth 2 or 3 times and always got the same result, put in castrol and no leaks, take it out and it leaked. Harly heads get quite hot and I assumed the problem was the the other oils just got a bit thinner at very high temperatures....but I never knew for sure.

I do know for sure that I have been using synthetic oil (both modil and castrol) in my 308 for about 2 years and it doesn't leak. I used standard castrol before that and it didn't leak either.

When I first got it is leaked like a sieve, I think every gasket and seal was shot - when I torn it apart to replace them it appeared that the car had been cronically and severly overheating (I fixed several cooling system problems when I first got it) and ruined all the seals/gaskets. I put is back togethter with new parts and all the leaks went away.

 

My GT4 had minimal leaks in it with dino oil.As soon as I put synthetic in it it leaked at least ten times more.I thought I had a cracked sump or something.I switched back to dino oil and changed the filter and degreased the engine and after that barely any leaks.I am currently undergoing the longest engine rebuild in history 5 months on and the block is finally apart and going to the machine shop this week.Sorry to side step the thread but this is what I found using synthetic oil.Also found oil consumption was greater with the synthetic in a worn engine which already consumed oil

 

Most of the leak problems encountered were from early synthetics which were of a different formulation than current syns. The current syns have five to six times the film strength of dino formulations and last far longer before break-down, not to mention syns ability to take much higher temperatures. The extra protection far outweights any incidental drop of oil you might encounter unless the oil is running out of the engine.
Most of the time someone will put syn in an old car with hard seals and realize leaking. I'll never use dino oil again in anything as I seek the highest performing lube. When you can tell the difference after the change, that to me speaks volumes. My nickles worth!

Gary

 

My 95 355 has synthetic oil. NO leaks and NO ferrari drops. I am using 0- 40W Mobile one.

 

I worked as a lube tech for Econo-lube-n-tune in the early 1980's.at this time Atlantic Ritchfield came out with Arco Graphite oil.It was touted as the next great thing and we had promos for a little while,then no promos ,then no Arco-graphite.The oil was conventional oil with powered graphite mixed in.I would upsell "Arco -graphite" fill the car up,send it away and within 2 weeks it would comeback with numerous,very black,(Graphite,remember?)leaks everywhere.it found the path of least resistance and it was ugly. Tim
F.Y.I.

 

During my last oil change I went with Mobil 1 5W-40 after using dino oil in my 308QV for the last 11 years. Didn't leak before, and still no leaks. Heck, the owner's manual recommended AGIP SINT anyway back in 1984, so I shouldn't be surprised.

 

I don't have any valve seals left after some stupid Italian guy put synthetic oil in my GT4 when it was at service in Italy... After 2000km it's start smoking and have never stopped after that! I'm using non-synthetic oil now, but it don't helps so the valve seals is probably some ware between Italy and Sweden!

 

I just switched from Valvoline 20w-50 Racing dino, to Cast. Syntec and car runs a tad cooler revs more freely and still doesn't leak a drop syth myth busted.

 

1994 348 Spider:
on 0w40 Mobil 1 synth, no leaks, no drops
on 5w40 Castrol synth, no leaks, no drops
on 10w40 Castrol synth, no leaks, no drops
on 5w30 Red Line synth, no leaks, no drops for the first 3 weeks, but now I get 1 single drop of oil per day

I average a bit over 1,000 miles per month. At my next oil change I'll move up to Red Line 5w40 synth, and I expect that there won't be that daily drop of oil on my garage floor after that point.

Likewise, if I went to a 0w20 synth (no, I wouldn't really do it) then I'd expect two or more drops of fresh oil per day on my garage floor.

 

Used Mobil 1 full synth on 328, then recently switched to Lubro-Moly Full Synth 0W-40. No leaks.

Use same full synth on all cars, all hi-mileage and no leaks on any of them at all. Never understood any of the "theories" people have about leaky synth oils. If you have a leak, it has nothing to do with the oil.

 

I changed to 'thinner' more durable mobil 1 0W40 from castrol RS 0W50. A leak started. I took it to my wrench who changed two oil pipes (not cheap!). Now NO LEAKS. Mobil 1 all the way from now on!

 

I put Mobil 1 synthetic in a 911 I have, switching from years of non-synthetic use. The car had been absolutely bone dry since day 1 through regular 3,000mi oil changes, however, after filling with the synthetic there were multiple BIG leaks within just a few days. There is DEFINITELY some accuracy to the statement that you'll likely experience increased leaks going from non-synthetic to synthetic whatever the underlying technical logic.

 

Enjoyed reading this historical account of bleeding Ferraris. I have a restored '82 GTSi with 35K. I use Castrol Syntex Blend 10w40 and have had no leaks, drops or dribs since installing a custom pressure o-ring seal. I drive the car about twice a month on average and she seems to purr at 4K and above. No unusual smells, other than the customary hot engine.
Enjoyed the thread.

 

my 2000 Land Rover had no leaks with Dino oil and has a steady valve cover leak with Mobile One. However it is British and if it's not leaking she most be out of oil. I stick with the Syn and only change it once a year.

 

I have put Castrol fully synth 10/50, 10/60, 0/40 put in anything with an engine for the last 25 years. If one leaks, it does it with any oil.
Only always heard these stories from people who didn’t want to spent the extra money for synthetic. The all had some "super cheap wonder oil" that the famous tuner XY even used in his race engines, 10 bucks a gallon...

 

I have to take issue with this, as well as some of the other things said along this thread. Having "been" a Mercedes Benz "Club of America" member for over 7 years, and being literate enough to read AND comprehend, I would suggest some of you read some back issues of thier excellent club magazine from over the last 10 years or so, on the issues of motor oils. I have read numbers of minutes from "club" events, tech meetings around the country, and various letters from other members. Until MB got in bed with Mobil, the oil of choice at many dealerships was Kendall. The specified change interval among owners has been 3000 miles. Now MB techs have to whisper, for fear of reprisals. To quote a MB tech at a giant club event held in Denver about 6 years ago, to an audiance of something like 1000 people "We have cars that have recorded milages in excess of 500,000 and many over 750,000 miles with no major engine work, what benifit would synthetic give with the added cost ?". Also, in THAT club, it was highly, and very well known, that engines with higher mileage will leak oil with synthetic.

Brand new cars with brand new seals and gaskets and nice machined surfaces do not leak any kind of oil. Period! But engines with higher miles show more leaks sooner when running synthetic. This subject has been discussed at every workbench, service shop, and parts store for over 20 years, I can't seriously believe people are still asking if its true. Yes, cars with higher mileage leak oil, cars running synthetic leak more sooner. I have personal experience I have spoken of in other threads, as have others on here, if people would only listen. Everyone isnt lying about this. Ferraris don't generally leak oil because they never see enough mileage before being overhauled with new seals and gaskets. The ones that have gotten higher miles, have been seen to leak on synthetic. All people need to do is read a bit more.

The only reason this keeps coming up is people trying to justify thier opinion. Synthetic is better oil than dino, but only tenths of a percent better, not in volumes. Its better in turbo applications to alleviate coking in turbos, but really, I seen turbos on dino oil last 200K miles, so where is the gain? It really has a place in a diesel in the winter though, so it will crank over faster. But when the day is over, I seriously doubt that even under race coditions in most street cars, neither oil type would show any advantage in engine longevity. And in day to day service, other than a leaky engine, I dont think you would see any gain. If however, you are one of those 25,000 mile oil change people with Mobil One, I wont buy your car from you.

I have a 1993 Ford F350 diesel out in the driveway I bought used. I am the second owner, and the first owner ran synthetic its whole life. I bought it with 180K miles, dripping oil like crazy from everywhere. Changed it with dino oil and it stopped dripping within days. Now at 220K miles, dry as a bone. Not wonder oil, Fleet Farm HD diesel oil. Maybe you would like to pull the engine out for me and re-seal and put new gaskets in it so I can use 5 buck a quart oil. I know this engine will go to 400K or farther before it needs to come out, because thats what the world knows they can do. And it will make it there on plain old dino oil. My old Ford with a 6.9 diesel had almost 500K, still running strong, with dino all the way, and no drips! No wonder oil in that one either. Want to hear about two of my MB cars? One was even gas powered. Or would you like to hear about my friend who ran his cars on Mobil with 25K oil change intervals?

 

I agree with Krowbar. A new engine properly assembled with new seals shouldn't leak. However, Seals with mileage, and/or age hardening will tend to leak more with synthetic than dino oil. It may not be a lot more tho, but if the seal is marginal, then synthetic may leak & dino may not.

So I quibble with your voting options. There needs to be a 'I tried it & synthetic leaked a bit more' category. Or maybe a range from 1( no difference) to 5(major difference).

on the 1-5 scale, I'd swlect a 2 from personal experience:

I've had a plaguey niggling leak from one of my cam seals. I know what's causing it, & I'm getting about due for a major, so am living with it till then.

It isn't a big leak, just a couple of drops under the car in the garage each day with Castrol Syntec 5W50. With Mobil 20W50 it's about half that or less. My suspicion is that part of it is due to the low temp behavior: ie: 5W vs 20W. That is, when the car's cool, the 20W is thick enough so that it tends to stay in the seal, but the 5W oozes out.

Over the last 5 years or so, numerous Fchat members have reported switching between synthetick & dino has made leaks come & go, while others saw no difference.

 

Guess what. Synthetic works its way into places dino oil doesn't. That's a good thing. So if you have a leak, fix it... and use the best oil for your application. BMW/Ferrara/Expedition/Crown Vic/ various boats all Castrol 5W50, no leaks, no problems.

A friend uses cheap dino oil on a beater F150. That makes sense... but not for something you care about.