Talk it up Rubens, talk it up ... | FerrariChat
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Talk it up Rubens, talk it up ...

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by PSk, Jun 22, 2004.

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  1. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    #1 PSk, Jun 22, 2004
    Lets hope that RB does get serious enough about this that he and MS start bumping wheels ... bring it on ... oh my God we might return to racing again :D :D

    I just hope RB ego/confidence does not deflate before the next GP and yet again we follow God around all race long.

    And yes save the RB is really trying now replies, as yeah he is currently trying to some degree ... maybe ;). I want to see him win at all costs mode, because I (unlike others) do think MS is beatable, infact I have watched MS be beaten many times before ...

    Pete's preparing to become a HUGE RB fan if he just gives it a REAL thumping go against MS

    ps: Imperial83, don't worry mate the WC is in the bag, Ferrari will still win plenty of races even if they don't finish one. Not trying to jinx just wanting to see a race again :(
     
  2. Hubert

    Hubert F1 Rookie

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    #2 Hubert, Jun 22, 2004
    We'll see. I doubt it, tho. As we all saw, RB backed down more than once; i.e., off the front straight, into T1. If he had wanted to put his balls on the chopping block, that was his chance -- he didn't. Says it all (almost).
     
  3. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    #3 PSk, Jun 22, 2004
    Yes I agree unfortunately. I for one (if air ticket to France was provided) will promise to be RB's personal motivator and continually yell at RB that he is the greatest, he is the one to take it to MS, Go boy GO!!! ...

    Unfortunately, as Jackie Stewart has stated before, RB needs lots of pumping and I think Ferrari are too busy moving the red carpet around for MS to be bothered with a mentally weak driver that needs more self belief ...

    Pete's excited
     
  4. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    #4 imperial83, Jun 22, 2004
    Dear Rubens,
    Please can you give Michael a THUMPING. We the great Ferrari fans would like to see you knock your own teammate out on turn one. Please crash into him. That way no Ferrari will end the race and Ferrari will get ZERO points from the race. Please Rubens can you do this for the next 5 races so that Jenson Button can win the drivers world championship and Renault can win the constructors championship.

    We want to see a return to racing. We would like to see Ferrari end their race hopes on turn 1. Rubens can you do that for the critics. God knows there is no shortage of them in this world.

    FORTUNATELY, Rubens is smarter than that. Fortunately Rubens won't give Michael a "THUMPING" to crash both cars. I think ferrari critcs should become Montoya and Williams fans. they would enjoy both cars giving each other a thumping on the first turn.

    On to Magny Cours for another Ferrari 1 - 2 !!!
     
  5. Hubert

    Hubert F1 Rookie

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    #5 Hubert, Jun 22, 2004
    What's the boy gonna do, really? Let's be honest. So you've got a gig at the premier team, and you're driving the "it" car on the grid, you're getting paid millions to make everyone elses cars look like broke down Yugos driven by your uncles, brothers 92 year old grandmamma, and yet... you're not happy.
    What's the problem?
    Well, the problems isn't that Ferrari aren't putting it all out for RB, it's that RB is stuck trying to make the best of a King Midas career; here you are at the best team, with a castrated career.
    If RB wanted to race, he should be soliciting other teams. He won't, however, because he's drunk with the opiate of driving for the best team, and he's enjoying the sweet delusion of one day being the #1 driver.
    Fact is, RB's at a playmate party in the Ferrari garage, but the key to his chastity belt is in the Williams paddock. Oopsie, I guess he buggered up those "logistics."
     
  6. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    #6 PSk, Jun 22, 2004
    The greatest driver that has ever sat in a Ferrari and IMO ever will was Gilles Villeneuve. If he made it through the first corner it was a miracle, but God that man could drive, and every driver that had Gilles in his mirror was EXPECTING a passing attempt ... just did not know when it was going to happen.

    You see the difference between MS and RB is quite simply. MS dives up the inside and does not give a stuff whether he hits RB or not ... RB will make room.

    On the other hand MS has it over RB because he knows that RB is too much of a whimp to do the same to him, thus if RB tries to pass MS does not give and RB ends up pulling back.

    The only way this will ever change and RB will ever pass MS is if he changes his attitude and does to MS what MS does to EVERYBODY. If they hit so what, but the most important thing is MS respect for RB will lift and next race he will be far more weary.

    I could not care less if Ferrari finish 1 & 2, I want to see a race. I would prefer to see a fantastic race and either MS or RB win, but the quality of the race comes first for me ... result second. RB following MS around having little impotent little looks at passing MS do not make for exciting racing IMO, because I know that it will never happen, just as MS does and hence he does not even block for RB.

    Pete's a real racer
     
  7. Prescription7

    Prescription7 Rookie

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    #7 Prescription7, Jun 22, 2004
    Ok maybe no one will agree but I've noticed after just about every GP of the season Rubens has to make excuses for why he didn't win. He's a talented driver but he makes it seem as though the car failed him in some way and that's the only reason he didn't lap Schumacher and win the race.

    This past weekend he complained of "low tyre pressures" and that's why Michael got passed him. If it was an isolated incident I'd let it go, but it's after every race. I'm not a big Schumacher fan, but he is certainly a man of respect and in recent memory I've never seen him quick to point blame to his car or crew.

    I really liked Rubens before, and I don't think he needs to make excuses as second place is an excellent performance. Maybe it's just me, but when there are teams like Minardi out there struggling and celebrate it as a 'miracle' when they score a point, I think it's bad manners for Barrichello to be complaining about having the best car on the grid.
     
  8. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    #8 PSk, Jun 22, 2004
    Very perceptive and again supports my theory that RB is not a passionate racer at heart, or to be fair to the man confused at the present moment at why he is racing in F1.

    Pete's a RB fan really, just wants him to lift that little bit and move out of his comfort zone that he has built around himself
     
  9. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    #9 imperial83, Jun 22, 2004
    The greatest drivers that are sitting in a Ferrari are... well what do you know... they are sitting in it right now...

    1) Michael Schumacher: the most technically sound, best F1 racing driver the sport has ever had.
    2) Rubens Barrichello: a great racing driver, second only to the greatest driver of all time.

    Added bonuses:
    1) They make it out of the first turn without crashing into each other
    2) They are great racing drivers that are actually smart
    3) They have accumulated 4 Constructors and 4 drivers world championships together.
    4) They have won more races for ferrari than any other driver combination in the team at the same time.
    5) They actually function as a team... imagine that... a real team in F1 that is a team sport.. WOW ... what a concept!!!!

    On to Magny Cours. Anothe Ferrari 1 - 2!!!
     
  10. FLATOUTRACING

    FLATOUTRACING F1 Rookie

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    #10 FLATOUTRACING, Jun 22, 2004
    Hell I noticed....I had an entire post devoted to his constant excuses.

    Bottom line, as I said before, no one who wants to ever win the World Title would agree to be a number two or to have constraints put on him.

    This is why RB will NEVER (edited) be champion...plain and simple.

    He has accepted being number 2 for as long as MS is there or RB is employed by Ferrari.

    Otherwise he would have said F' it Michael has everything to lose (since I am not allowed to win the title) if I close the door on him here at Indy in T1. Does he want to win the title...if he did he would have forced MS over with a blatant chop like MS would use.

    He left the door so wide open we could have driven half the tow rigs in the infield through it. In fact it was so wide you could have wheeled an Airbus Beluga through it.
    Regards,

    Jon P. Kofod
    www.flatoutracing.net

    PS: I still think Brawn and Todt should drive every other race to make the championship interesting.
     
  11. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    #11 PSk, Jun 22, 2004
    Hmmm, well it depends how you rate drivers. As you will see the professional drivers in the last F1 magazine rated Gilles ahead of Rubens and not far behind MS.

    While I rate MS very, very highly, if Gilles had not died I think he would have won quite a few WC's once he had matured into the perfect fast and reckless driver.

    So I'm sorry Imperial83 I do not agree with you rating RB as the second best driver that Ferrari have ever had, I can think of many drivers I would put above RB, ie:

    Gilles Villeneuve (as already discussed).
    Niki Lauda.
    John Surtees.
    Ascari.
    And if I thought about it long enough probably many more. Acumulating points does not make you a great driver, just a consistent safe driver. F1 is not about driving Volvos and being safe ... :D

    Pete's humble opinion
     
  12. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    #12 PSk, Jun 22, 2004
    Jon,

    Your post has confused me. On one sentence you are saying that RB will be WC, and then another sentence you are saying that anyone that accepts being number 2 for so long will never be ...

    But he very much did ???
    Thus based on your last sentence, why? ... contradiction.

    Pete's confused
     
  13. FLATOUTRACING

    FLATOUTRACING F1 Rookie

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    #13 FLATOUTRACING, Jun 22, 2004
    Sorry Pete missed a few key strokes should read "this is why RB will NEVER be champion"

    Jon
     
  14. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    #14 imperial83, Jun 22, 2004
    Lets see...

    OPTION 1) Be safe, win the drivers' and constructors' world championship
    OPTION 2) Drive like a maniac and kill yourself
    OPTION 3) Give your teammate a thumping and crash both cars

    Oh this is such a hard choice... decsions decisions... what are Ferrari, MS and RB going to do? What will they do?

    I say let us see them thump each other out of the remaining races... golly then we can have a thumping good time... they will be real racers if they give each other a thumping and thump each other out on turn 1.

    Everyone that would like to see both Ferrari cars crash out of the remainder of the races please raise your hand?
    Thank you now those who raised their hands, can you call yourselves Williams fans and have a thumping good time seeing your cars never finish another race.

    On to Magny Cours and another Ferrari 1 - 2!!!!
     
  15. FLATOUTRACING

    FLATOUTRACING F1 Rookie

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    #15 FLATOUTRACING, Jun 22, 2004
    Imperial...I like you enthusiasm for MS and the way you defend him (same as I do with Senna) but you need to brush up on F1 history.

    A certain racer by the name Fangio won the World Title with Ferrari in 1956.

    Surely you can't mean to imply that RB is better than a 5 time world champion?????????

    RB will never be compared to GV, Lauda, Prost,or Mansell all of whom won titles.

    Jon
     
  16. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    #16 imperial83, Jun 22, 2004
    In Juan Manuel Fangio's days there were no Constructors World Championship title. He raced from 1950 to 1957. Only winning the title one year with Ferrari.

    Rubenson the other hand has playe a pivotal role in winning the World Constructors Championship for Ferrari for 4 years.
     
  17. FLATOUTRACING

    FLATOUTRACING F1 Rookie

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    #17 FLATOUTRACING, Jun 22, 2004
    The constructor's title. Who give's a rat's ass about that. Can you name the team that won the title in 94, 95, or maybe 96.

    A driver isn't judged on how many drivers titles he helped win. Luca Badoer can make the same statement since he spent 10 X as much time in the Ferrari.

    Sorry but Reubens can't even be mentioned in the same breath as the greatest Ferrari drivers (Lauda, Phil Hill, GV and others).

    The reason Fangio only won one title with Ferrari is that he only drove one year with Ferrari, the other years he was too busy winning titles for Alfa and Merc.

    Maybe one year doesn't qualify him, but Reubens couldn't carry Niki's jock strap let his gym bag.

    Jon
     
  18. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    #18 PSk, Jun 22, 2004
    He only drove for Ferrari for one year ... because the cars were beneath him.

    One thing I have to add. The most important thing for a F1 team to win is the World Drivers Championship. The manufacturers championship has always come second.

    For example we all say that Ferrari did not win the WC for 21 years ... that is the drivers championship only. Ferrari won the manufacturers WC in 1984 (I think) ... and even they do not care about that.

    Pete's perspective
     
  19. FLATOUTRACING

    FLATOUTRACING F1 Rookie

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    #19 FLATOUTRACING, Jun 22, 2004
    Pete they won it on 99 didn't they (Irvine/MS) ???

    Jon
     
  20. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    #20 PSk, Jun 22, 2004
    Yes I think you are right, but I was trying to show how insignificant the manufacturers championship is compared to preparing the winning drivers car.

    Thus before 1999 they had not won the drivers WC for 20 years but only 15 years for the manufacturer ... I didn't hear anybody going on about the 15 years just the 20 years for the REAL WC.

    Pete's perspective
     
  21. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    #21 imperial83, Jun 22, 2004
    To me the constructors championship is everything. I challenge your beloved Juan Manuel Fangio and your beloved Niki Lauda to win the Drivers Championship without a Constructor and without a car. maybe they can run around the track like monkeys while the other drivers drive cars. F1 is all about the constructors.

    Oh and here are the Constructors World Championship details you requested:
    94: Williams
    95: Benetton
    96: Williams
     
  22. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    #22 imperial83, Jun 22, 2004
    I want you to tell that to the face of one of the 300 Ferrari team mechanics and engineers that put in their blood sweat and went for long hours without sleep to put give Irvine and MS that beuatiful Ferrari in 1999. And then after two seconds I would like to hear that slap heard all around the world.

    On to Magny Cours and Another Ferrari 1 - 2!!!
     
  23. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    #23 PSk, Jun 22, 2004
    Imperial83,

    I'm sorry to say this but you are a fool, and have little idea what F1 is about.

    The 1999 Manufacturers championship would have been a great consolation prize, but they would have felt slightly hollow that MS's unfortunate accident robbed them that year.

    As for your other post again how can you say these stupid things. The mechanics, engineers, EVERYBODY works to be the win. The ultimate price in any race is for your DRIVER to win. Naturally if he wins then your car has won.

    Thus if your DRIVER wins the WC then your car was the fastest that year.

    If all you win is the manufacturers championship and SOMEBODY else won the drivers WC, then you were beaten and your car and driver combination was not fast enough. Thus the manufacturers WC simply rewards consistency NOT outright performance.

    Why do you think there was such a big deal made about MS winning the drivers championship in 2000. Infact a FAR, FAR bigger deal than the 1999 manufacturers championship. Again why do you think everybody takes about the 21 year drought.

    I'm sorry Imperial83 you have not a clue about motor racing and the passion of winning ... 2 million go kart trophies or not. I tell you now that the manufacturer of your go kart and supporters, etc. could not give a flying fnck whether the whole field was using the same kart or not ... the only one that matters is the one that the winning driver was using.

    Remember as you stated earlier, the manufacturers championship did not always exist ... gee what do you think motivated the mechanics and teams back then to make the amazingly technologically advanced cars (for their time) and work ALL night (just like today).

    I'm done with you. If you honestly think RB is the 2nd best driver that Ferrari have ever had then I suggest you read up, learn some appreciation of history and finally pull your head out of your arse. Jon and I have tried to be rational with you but you just do not get it. Gee I wish you could talk to Todt so he could put you straight, you won't listen to anybody else it seems.

    Bye and good luck with your future, you are going on my ignore list (my first congratulations :)). I would like to discuss F1 and racing with somebody that can reason and understands the sport and is a little less blind and fanatical.

    Pete's not that one eyed and fanatical about the Ferrari God ... I wonder if anybody is ;)
     
  24. jtremlett

    jtremlett F1 Rookie

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    #24 jtremlett, Jun 23, 2004
    FWIW Ferrari won the Constructors in 1982 and 1983 (not 1984 as stated).

    The Constructors is generally of greater importance to the teams (as a measure of their achievement rather than just the drivers) and manufacturers (for marketing etc.) than it is to the fans. Frank Williams often says it is more important to his team than the drivers title. But you might say that he would say that as a few drivers' titles have gone down the pan. To the general public (i.e. you and me) the drivers' title is usually the one that matters and the constructors' a bonus.

    Since Gilles Villeneuve was mentioned earlier (IMO the most exciting driver ever to have sat in an F1 car), I must comment:
    Gilles drove 67 GPs (66 for Ferrari). Off the top of my head he only once failed to complete the first lap: at Zandvoort in 1981 and that wasn't his fault in my opinion. He was also caught up in the carnage at Montreal in 1980 (along with almost everyone else), but the race was restarted (and he finished 5th). A miracle if he made it through the first corner you say? Yes, but Gilles was a miracle worker.
     
  25. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    #25 PSk, Jun 23, 2004
    jtremlett,

    Thank you for the correction, I did not actually realise they had 2 back to back wins.

    I'm not going to mention any more about which championship is more important as I have already made my point clear. Usually you see adds indicating so and so won in THIS car, and I guess if they can not say that then it would be nice to be able to say they came second ;)

    Anyway back to Gilles Villeneuve. Yes I knew that I was being over the top with Gilles. The point I was trying to make is racing is more than just racking up the points. While that might sound like a contradition we must remember that winning in any sport is very much a mental game. You have many times won or lost before the game, match or race has started due to the perceptions your oponent has on you.

    The current grid has many different types of drivers, lets study them and my perception of their talent:

    MS - very fast but biggest asset is his never give up attitude and WILL definitely have a go if given half a chance. If I was a F1 driver I would be wary of MS if he was in my mirrors ;)

    RB - very fast but happy to settle for a position and unable to drive around a problem (hence the whinge about it after the race). If I was a F1 driver I would not be too concerned if he appeared in my mirrors, I reckon I could easily hold him off, and should be able to hold the fastest line without having to block much (if at all).

    JPM - fast and a little eratic. Is a trier thus would keep the door very closed if he was behind me. If he had a go I would definitely think about letting him through to save my race ...

    RS - fast on a good day but not a racer. Easy to keep behind ... would not have to block much.

    Sato - very fast and pumped. Have to keep the door closed very shut and be wary of him having a stab ...

    KR - very fast and keen. Would have to race hard and fast to keep in front of him as long as his car survives ;)

    Most others - as per RB ... with obvious exceptions, but I am supposed to be working ;)

    Pete's opinion
     
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