TBM3 Avenger

Sparky knows.

 

I had looked at TBMs as well. From what folks have told me the big issue is the complicated hydraulic system - everything is hydraulic - especially if you keep the hydraulic turret but the Wing fold and bombay doors are a lot of stuff.
The engine is the R-2600 as you know, and the B-25 community keeps these pretty well sourced I hear (or used to).
There is a great WW2 training film on how to fly the TBM which is a hoot to watch.
I've heard from folks that fly them that the control pressures are rather high - way higher than a T-6, especially at speed. This makes sense as it was made to be stable on a bomb run.
And then there is that little issue of insurance... When I had the SNJ, my insurance guy told me the more folks you can get in it, the higher your liability is going to be. I think they do like for folks to have a bit of T-6 (or in this naval case, SNJ ) time before going into planes like this.

I've always kinda shopped these planes, the largest single engine plane in WW2, intermittantly due to the fact I thought they would be a good and tough plane for the price and have a lot of support since they were used as tankers.

And since we have to have pictures...
I'd love to hear other's experience.
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Yes - I've been to the Fighter Factory when I was stationed at Langley: very impressive indeed. It seems there are basically 3 ways to get a TBM nowadays, in descending order of availability and supply:
1. Pay Mark Clark at Courtesy Aircraft $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for an ok - nice one
2. Get and restore a water bomber from Canada: $$$$ at first, $$$$$$ later
3. Find the RARE private one that comes up in TAP or word of mouth - $ who knows?

As I remember, the Fighter Factory was pretty dear in price structure as well....

A BT-13 is looking better every day: Low running costs, low DIY maintenance, relatively low insurance, R-985 MOGAS STC.... although I do so miss that sweeeet flying SNJ with the high roll rate aileron bellcranks and p51 steerable tailwheel (a must have )


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The TBMs were built at the Trenton, New Jersey, Plant of Eastern Aircraft Division, a consortium of a couple GM factories for the purpose. My dad worked there during the war. We lived a couple miles from the plant and I am just old enough to remember hearing them sighting in the machine guns at the Navy base they built across the street from the plant. Once in a while I would see one taxi (be towed???? it was a long time ago) out of the high-bay, or back if a defect was found by the test pilots. I also had a tour of the plant on "family day" when I was about 5, just before the war ended.

I later worked at the plant which was a part of Ternstedt Division, making primarily GM hardware and trim parts. I was a foreman for a while and some of the "Rosie the Riviters" who worked on the planes worked for me. "Tiger Lil" comes readily (and happily) to mind. They had lots of stories, most not fit for family discussion. One item of interest was that each shift had at least one midget ("little man" now, I guess) who bucked the rivets in the tail section assembly.

In about 1961 I worked in the material control department. We got a telex asking about TBM parts. The owner had found the name plate with the plant location on it and decided we might have parts lying around. He was using it as a duster. They have tremendous payload capacity. Turns out he wanted hydraulic parts, and Vickers had everything he needed on hand.

The Wildcat, FM-1 and the "Wilder Wildcat", the FM-2 were also built by Eastern Aircraft since they shared some systems and structure. Those were assembled at the BOP (Buick, Olds, Pontiac) assembly plant in Linden, New Jersey.

 

Thanks for that interesting background on Eastern Aircraft and the M and M's.
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The COD TBMs without the turret are a bit less desirable than the turreted version.
It looks like a nice plane; I don't think it's that cheap, but I know I am...

 

I have little to offer in the quest for an Avenger but I do have a bit of history to throw in. When I was working at Sarasota/ Bradenton Airport as a line boy in 1948 a movie was being made there called " On an Island With You" starring Esther Williams and Peter Lawford.Paul Mantz was doing all the aviation work for it and he and his mechanic showed up one day in a TBF that they had just bought in Norfolk NAS. When he taxied up to the ramp we could smell fuel after he shut down. The bombay was open and the airplane reeked of fuel. Neither he or his mechanic were concerned. As he explained, , " The heater had been removed and the fuel line had just been pinched off with a pair of pliers and it was dripping a little fuel." No problem to them.We repainted the airplane in navy markings and serviced it while it was there and we poured gallon after gallon of oil into that thing. We talked with him while he was down waiting for filming and he was an interesting guy. We talked about the air races and he said that the fastest airplane was the B model( fast back ) Mustang, which is what he won the Bendix in ( I think number 47). He also said in our discussions that Amelia Earhardt was not a good pilot ( how many times have we heard that ) and that they lost several pilots filming " Blaze of Noon" when they were trying to see who could spin lower in the Travelairs in the opening scene of the movie. He liked the TBF.
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Not refering to you Tripp, but the airplane. Big, lumbering, gas loving, oil eating complex military aircraft. Been told its a kiddycar to fly and more importantly, to land. Lots of 'slow me down' flaps and a typical Grumman Iron Works sturdy airframe. The Wright 2600 engine is ok, given that its recently overhauled. Figure 100 gph @ 4.00 per gal....400.00 just for gas. Throw in a few gals of av oil...20.00. Annual maint costs would be spread out over how many hours you fly. Insurance, hanger rent....I'm gonna say 6-700.00 per hour total to fly. You will need a Letter of Authorization form the FAA. That means you have to have a buch of hours in a heavy complex trainer like the AT-6, then a proper check out by someone authorized by the FAA to prove that you are able to operate the airplane safely and within its limitations so that you dont go flying off into someones house or school or other places you dont belong. Cool airplane and still affordable to buy. Something to aim for. You have to have goals in life....just make that one up front. Hope this helps. Keep your rudder out of the mud and happy flying. By the way, there is absolutely nothing CHEAP about falling in love....airplanes,girls, etc.
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Yeah, I guess I'm full of it. Sparky did trigger another piece of recall about the arrival of the TBF. Mantz landed on the shorter runway at Sarasota and maybe used one tenth of it, if that. The Avenger looked like it was going to drop out of the sky when it came balloon-like over the fence at something under 80MPH. It softly squatted like a big ol' bird and took forever taxiing in. Very docile airplane.
Esther, on the other hand.......my buddy and I decided to trail her one night after shooting ( and work ) as she went from night spot to nite spot. She drank nothing but cream de menthe frappes and went until 2 or 3 in the morning. I staggered into work at 0600 and there she was on the set, brite-eyed and ready to go. One powerful woman. Shoulders bigger than mine and I imagine that she was stronger. I swam with her one Sunday in the pool at Lido Beach Casino on Longboat Key and was an unstoppable dynamo 24 hours a day. Great set of.....pearly white teeth.
About that time at the airport a beautiful Cessna 170B pulled up to the line and out-stepped Zack Mosely, creator of " Smilin' Jack". His bird was N1111.
Nice and very talkative guy.

 

Sparky, that has to be the best picture ever of a TBF. Where did you get it ? All the data on operating one of those beasts is very interesting too. You made it all up , right?
During the filming at the field there was a sequence where the pilot ( Peter Lawford ) was starting his take off roll in the Avenger. They had phony palm trees and tropical flora stuck in the ground at the end of the runway and Lawford would have nothing to do with the airplane...scared to death of it and did NOT want to do the sequence. I begged and pleaded for them to let me do it but they rigged it so Mantz did it and I lost my bid for stardom. That Avenger is a BIG airplane but it appeared to be very compliant and easy to manage. I wouldn't want to feed one , however, and your dissertation on its feeding habits verifies the physics of flight : What makes an airplane fly? MONEY.

 

However did those back seat guy's ever do it?
I have enough trouble flying while facing straight ahead.
Well, almost...

I can only imagine,
going into a suprise!! (read hi neg. "G") dive,
without being able to see where I was headed....
'specially in those military maneuvers where they peel off
from the rest of the squadron, in a lefthanded roll to an inverted dive,
......into clouds!!
and doing it Backwards, to boot...??

and keeping last week's meals down where they belong...

Good Grief!
There must have, had to have been, alot of pressure washing of those cockpits, after each mission.....
well,......OK, a good hosing down then...

 

Yea Bob, all I ever noticed about that long legged gal was her WHITE TEETH. She was quite a show stopper indeed. Turner Classic TV has been running a brace of her old flicks the past week. I had forgotten how cute she was. The pix come off of Google. The dollars/hr sortta off the top of my head. Just like figuring the 51 costs. Lawford was a wossie. Think he would be spooky of a two-wheeler.
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AD-4. Dont like it when I'm not flying. Aerobatics when I'm driving are ok. Dont like it when someone else has the stick. Couldnt imagine backwards flying. Went to Viet Nam backwards on a Navy Connie. Strange sensation.

 

Its not bying thats expensive....its keeping thats expensive.

 

I'm honest injun about the teeth. She had, amongst other things, a beautiful set of teeth and a great smile. Notice that most all of her publicity shots are like the one shown here? Sort of sideways. Her waist was not much narrower than her back and shoulders , both of which were well developed from swimming. She had not an ounce of shyness and was "on camera all the time". Liike I said, a dynamo.
During that filming a pilot brought a Grumman Widgeon down from Lake Wales that was used in the film also and we painted it dark blue. He had to quickly put on a blonde wig one day and borrowed a Navion to scramble up to some huge thunderheads east of us. They wanted to film a cloud sequence with a Navion being " flown" by Lana Turner in a movie called" Cass Timberlane" with Spencer Tracy. Came out nice as I remember. I remember some other tidbits about following the " star" around but I won't post them here.
Probaly one of the nicest movie stars who came down there when I was there was Betty Hutton when they filmed a movie about the Ringling Bros. Circus.
There's a lot more.
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Lana Turner eh Bob. Seems like you have rubbed shoulders with some pretty cute gals. She wound up with some mob guy....to bad. Anyway, sure like the way one subject thrown at you conjers up another interesting memory for you to pass on to us. If you keep up with the movie star stuff, we will have our own Bikini thread. I gotta story about Marilyn Monroe on the set of the movie 'The Misfits' in Nevada I'l put up someday.
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I didn't see Lana Turner, just the pilot in a blonde wig and he didn't turn me on very much. But if you have some stuff about Marilyn and the Misfits well let's put it on ! I sort of liked that movie except that the airplane they were flying was a Meyers, the same type that destroyed my L-3 in a mid-air collision (obviously when I wasn't flying the L-3) but other than that , it was good. I'm done with the movie stuffexcept that in 1943 my girl friend doubled for Anne Baxter when they were making " Sunday Dinner For A Soldier" down there. Again, they passed me up for a starring roll, they thought I would be a good dinner roll or something. I can't even do a decent slow roll.

 

At the costs you quote, the $600/hour the local AT-6 charges seems a lot more reasonable. He'll do anything you and the airplane can stand, and will let you have some stick time if you both think you can. I recently talked to a fellow whose kids bought him a ride for his 80th birthday a couple months back. He was in Navy training as WWII ended so never had to take an airplane to a fight. He (the 80 year old) did several rolls and loops just for old times sake. Wow!

 

I'm pushing 80 and I have found that flying never leaves you. Timing and finesse do, however. I fly with my son once in a while I can still do the things that I used to but landings showed the loss of that all too important symphonic gathering of visual inputs and precise timing. Like swimming or riding a two wheeler, you never loose it especially if you recieved good instruction like your 80 year old friend.
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