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TDF Purchase/Market

Discussion in 'FF/Lusso/F12/812S' started by dustman, Oct 31, 2020.

  1. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
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    Jun 12, 2007
    6,572
    Debating adding a TDF, open to opinions, thoughts, facts etc from anyone following the market or owners/former owners with insights.

    Have never driven a F12. Had a Lusso V12 for a few months, found it too heavy, too much sound dampening, not enough stopping power to keep it. I do love loud cars (as a passenger) and I find the looks of the TDF to be timeless.

    Thank you.
     
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  3. day355

    day355 Formula Junior

    Jun 25, 2006
    937
    TDF remains " in the fact " a modern interpretation of the 250 GTO, more than a 250 passo corto !
    Huge difference with my F 12, very raw, very hardcore, i m really crazy about this car.
     
  4. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2013
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    There are a lot of write ups on the forum from owners. I think its the greatest modern Ferrari outside of the hypercars. The peak of the LDM era in my opinion. If you think those are bold claims, go drive one.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
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  5. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
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    Nov 9, 2008
    6,046
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    Edward
    Dooooo itttttt!!!!!!
    I’ve considered one for a longgg time. When the stars align, will have one in my stable.


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  6. gzachary

    gzachary Formula Junior
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    I purchased mine in June and put 250 miles on the car. Most of them on roads that require a lot of attention. It’s the most exciting car I have ever driven.

    Even if I thought the value of this car would fall in half I would not care. It is just amazing to drive. As a benchmark I have 3K track miles on a 488 Challenge Evo car which is way faster around Fiorano than any Ferrari road car by a huge amount. The 488 Challenge Evo runs a rough 1min15 sec around Fiorano vs the 1min19.7 for the LaFerrari vs. 1:21.5 for the Pista. The TDF is at 1:21.0. Quicker than the Pista. I have both and the TDF feels marginally quicker than the Pista. It does require more skill to put down the power than the Pista. Higher learning curve than Pista though by a lot to get to 10/10ths. And the TDF is still more fun.

    Yes I definitely love driving the Challenge and the Pista. But the TDF is a different level in driver feel. I did a comparison review to my 812 if you search on it. The TDF remains and keeps the thread going back to analog cars through not only its NA V12, but by retro design combined with modern aero cues. No way I could ever drive this with manual even though I love the idea and the powertrain is probably much better off with a human screwing up the delivery of that much power.

    If you love to drive, and love road course GT style driving (and hopefully done some track work), you will love this car.
     
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  8. j34

    j34 Karting
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    Sounds great to me! Problem is I put 9K miles on my 812 in the last year. I’m picking up a 458 challenge evo this winter. When I’m at the point of driving the hell out of the TDF and not caring that the value tanks when I put thousands of miles on it I will certainly be buying one.
     
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  9. gzachary

    gzachary Formula Junior
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    When I was looking over the last few years, several I saw had several thousand miles (3K and another at 6K) on them. The price hit was not as significant as I thought it would be. They took longer to sell. What I did see $100K lower than $900K to $1200K price zones when the market was its most active.

    I determined pretty quickly that I would not be selling the TDF ever, so I wasn’t super concerned.

    9K miles on 812 is impressive. I have 2.4K miles on mine. So I understand the depreciation hit.

    Assuming you get the 458 Challenge, I have friends who have or do drive them and love doing that.
     
  10. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
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    Jun 12, 2007
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    Love the write up, thank you.
    I may say F it and get one and not care about piling on the miles.
     
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  11. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
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    Nov 9, 2008
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    Nice to hear the comparisons.
    Curious if you adjusted suspension settings on your TDF ?


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  13. buddyg

    buddyg F1 Rookie
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    Sep 20, 2004
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    Love the TDF one of my favorites too bad it’s out of my price range.
     
  14. gzachary

    gzachary Formula Junior
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    I am running the car stock.
     
  15. NeilF8888

    NeilF8888 Formula 3

    Feb 10, 2005
    1,037
    Miami Beach
    The TDF really doesn’t need mods just a lot of track time to practice. It your driving that requires tuning to get the best out of the TDF.


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  16. BarryK

    BarryK Formula 3

    Dec 17, 2016
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    Since several posters above talk about their racing/track experience, post below has comments from another owner who is an F1 driver/Le Mans winner which offers a different point of view:

     
  17. sampelligrino

    sampelligrino Formula Junior

    Apr 16, 2017
    885
    Haven't had time to put many miles on mine yet. In my situation this is a car with such a far higher value than I'm accustom to, that I have to admit I'm still mileage sensitive with the car FWIW (opposed to the Speciale with over 16k miles)

    Another thing I have to get adjusted to with the tdf again relates to the value, because I'm aware of it when driving and seeing cars come up to you/next to you on public roads or highways like the 405 etc. Get a bit scared hoping everyone "behaves" and is driving sensibly around you. This is likely a function of time and comfort, as I felt the same way when I first got the Speciale, or maybe when you first take delivery of any supercar.

    Somehow I knew Barry you were going surface and try to offer a different take :) With the small amount of miles I've done....she is a disconcerting car.... for me in a good way. I am as far as it gets from an F1/Le Mans driver, but I find the experience he references as a fun thing, so long as you are careful and respectful (thinking of the 812 crash video). Coming straight from my Speciale which is the most balanced, fun, adjustable car I've ever had the pleasure of driving...you feel something different and "waiting" for you in the tdf with the RWS, laser sharp throttle, and massive front grip (275 up front). I thought the Speciale had sharp steering, but with the tdf as soon as you even think about a lane change, you'll be in the next lane or two if not paying attention. The tdf turns in like the Speciale, like a mid engined car, while feeling twice as big, feels like twice as much power, but just as light and agile. It is a different experience in my opinion to the heavier, more GT-like turbo cars that have so much grip with the tires and give you the ability to accelerate more effortlessly.

    I'll be honest that I haven't even been able to do a full throttle pull, or maybe even 75% throttle pull, but in race mode already reaching 4-5-6k you get some very angry sounds through the cabin that will put a huge smile on your face.

    I'm very enamored with mine, feel very fortunate. The looks are mesmerizing, and I do find the car for whatever reason to resonate with me as a modern interpretation of the 250 GTO as day355 said. She feels dangerous, I am concentrating and even sweating a bit just cruising up the 405! Makes the Speciale feel so predictable, and comfortable as a contrast.
     
  18. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
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    Jun 12, 2007
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    Thx for the notes Sam. Would love to see her if possible.
     
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  19. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    Just wait Sam, the engine is a total hooligan with the upper rev range.

    All I can tell you guys is I am also hardly an F1 driver, but I am used to cars like this, I am driving a street car designed to be driven on the street, and if you are a half way decent driver, and you drive within the conditions and also keep the systems on (sport or race mode) then this is a very confidence inspiring car- hardly the nutter mobile some say. I think you should be sure you are on fairly new tires and also make sure the alignment is checked.

    Its funny you mention the Speciale, because the car does remind me a lot of a front engined hyper car 458 in its personality. The front engine dynamics are a little different, but, again, with the systems in sport and race, the word that comes to mind is fun- also mega.

    One day I will go to the track and see what she’s really about- but CT off is as far as I would go there. I’m not a pro.

    Work your way up through it Sam, try some more revs with sport mode and warm tires. OMG.


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  20. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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  21. BarryK

    BarryK Formula 3

    Dec 17, 2016
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    Barry K
  22. 4_Eff_Sake

    4_Eff_Sake Formula Junior

    Jul 30, 2016
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    I’ve got 6,700kms on my TDF now (including 6 track days) - this car provides endless enjoyment on and off the track. There is so much raw power on tap that wanting more is never an issue that enters your mind. It is a sublime experience driving it on normal roads, but no-one in their right mind should be trying to extract max power from it on roads you’re sharing with the public.

    The massive grip and turn-in of the car is what unsettles most people compared to driving “normal” cars, I think. It is very agile, but you don’t point it like most cars - it definitely requires a bit of recalibration of your brain, especially at speed.

    Sam - you never quite get over the hyper-awareness while driving in normal traffic. I have more than once started to panic when stopped at the lights and watching drivers coming up behind me WHILE taking photos of my car!

    As to barryk’s post, I’m actually surprised it took him that long to get his normal anti-TDF dig in.
     
  23. 500drvr

    500drvr Karting
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    May 5, 2014
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    So Cal
    You can always count on Barry K to say something negative about the TDF. Was it ever established if he ever drove a TDF?
     
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  24. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    He was referring to records, plural. I was referring to a single broken record. Namely, you.
     
  25. NeilF8888

    NeilF8888 Formula 3

    Feb 10, 2005
    1,037
    Miami Beach
    Barry,
    No doubt that the TDF takes time to get used to because it’s a front engine overpowered rear wheel drive sports car not a mid engine point and shoot sports car.

    I have raced for many years and am in agreement that it takes time to learn the TDF limits, but you don’t need to be at the limit all the time to make the TDF work for you and turn in consistent, good times at the track. To go fast you want to use the cars traction and not be in a constant power slide. Having a F1 or LeMans winner finding it difficult to find the limits in a TDF is unusual, how does he race in the rain in an LMP or F1 car?

    Take your time learning the track in the TDF and be patient and get used to an 800hp rear wheel drive monster, it’ll come to you and if your not erratic at the outset you’ll gain the confidence to ride this bronco or Cavalino.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  26. BarryK

    BarryK Formula 3

    Dec 17, 2016
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    #23 BarryK, Nov 3, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2020
    Good question, and I guess that as a top end pro driver, he is good at ensuring that his cars are set up correctly to run at the limit for different conditions. And that they are good at finding handling problems.

    While we are clearly not discussing a race car and lap times here, comments from a driver at F1-level who also is an owner, are useful insights for a potential buyer.
     
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  27. day355

    day355 Formula Junior

    Jun 25, 2006
    937
    I can tell you Raikkonen loves his TDF much more than his LF ( now sold ). He tells the car challenges him.
     
  28. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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