Teen Age Member and Stupid Driving

Are the parents members?

 

You need an age requirement. Get some club documents together and have an attorney do it.

 

I agree. Should be 21+ IMO, unless you really believe there are benefits to making it 18+.

 

An age restriction is probably the most expedient way of addressing this particular situation but there may come a point in the future when an over-21 member is engaging in the same sort of reckless endangerment, in which case the club-powers-that-be would have to find a way of dealing with the problem directly. Which is why I'd advocate adding something to the bylaws (assuming it doesn't already exist) that provides for revocation of membership for consistent and gross violations of traffic laws. That way the rich kid can't claim age discrimination and the club has the means to deal directly with the problem in the event it arises again. Besides, the kid needs to know exactly why he's being removed. I don't see an advantage in beating around the bush in this situation-- it's better than he see firsthand that his actions have consequences.

BTW, it would be wise to run your plan by an attorney or two (surely you have some as members) before enacting it in order to reduce the chances that it could open the door to other legal problems now or in the future. But whatever course you choose, you're very wise to be getting out in front of this thing before it exposes the club and its members to badpress and legal action.

 

What Club is this? Why would it be subject to "potential Liability"?

 

Just out of interest how old is the new member exactly? I know some of the US states have some, well, unusually low minimum driving age. Is it as low as 14 in some States?

I'd only just stopped pushing my toy cars around the carpet at that age. I did worryingly push them quite quickly, scaled speeds of 200mph+ but then they would stop instantly just as they had started.

 

Age never tells the whole story.

Look at Verstappen. First drove in an F1 session at 16 years old, didn't embarrass himself at all (actually drove incredibly respectable times); his first season was nothing short of incredible.

Of course he's a rather special case, but certainly not the only 16 year old who can throw a car round a track far beyond the skill level of most people.

Similarly, there are loads of people who would ''qualify'' to join the club if it was 21 years old but couldn't even get around the first corner.

So in my opinion, saying one can only join after reaching the magical age of 21 is just bull****. Rather, set up a points system. If he does things that aren't allowed, he gets a point. 3 points and he's out, apply again next year etc.

 

Age never tells the whole story.

Look at Verstappen. First drove in an F1 session at 16 years old, didn't embarrass himself at all (actually drove incredibly respectable times); his first season was nothing short of incredible.

Of course he's a rather special case, but certainly not the only 16 year old who can throw a car round a track far beyond the skill level of most people.

Similarly, there are loads of people who would ''qualify'' to join the club if it was 21 years old but couldn't even get around the first corner.

So in my opinion, saying one can only join after reaching the magical age of 21 is just bull****. Rather, set up a points system. If he does things that aren't allowed, he gets a point. 3 points and he's out, apply again next year etc.

 

Yes, he can drive, but he's also proven his immaturity, which is the real problem. I'm not ready to jump on the bandwagon. When he learns some respect, I'll think about it.

An age limit will get you out of the worst of the spoiled rich kid problem. I still think it's a good place to start.

 

Not keen to start the whole Verstappen discussion here (can be done in the F1 section) but he's the real deal. I've been watching motorsport for too long and it's obvious when a true talent is amongst us.

As for the problem...is it a good place to start? Maybe. But a spoiled rich kid at 16 is also a spoiled rich kid at 21.

 

Yes, but at least then, he's an adult. As long as he's a minor, there's a gray area that allows them to get away with a lot. Especially if the parents have money. I would just eliminate the problem until he can be arrested and processed as an adult. Chances are, he'll never return if he's booted over age now and then, problem solved.

And I never said MV doesn't have talent. I said he was immature. That is two entirely different things.

 

He is 16.

Ok, some of the senior members of the club have a nice conversation with the das over a drink and a cigar.
Explain the concerns.
Gauge his reaction.
Have another friendly conversation with the kid. Talk to him about image and perception.

Do that first before changing laws and getting lawyers involved.

Kai

 

I am actually surprised a 16 year old is even interested in hanging out with old FCA geezers for wine tours etc. joking, I know FCA is more than wine tours (and am a member myself), or maybe these are track events...?

 

I grew up with a lot of his kind. If dad cared the kid would not be a problem now and not have seemingly unrestricted access to cars with performance levels well beyond his maturity.

Set an age limit. Not a perfect solution but a good place to start.

 

Whenever I do a group drive, which is not often. I always check out the participants. I then volunteer to run drag. I have found idiot drivers of all ages.

 

Ah, I suspected it was FCA after I posted. I think your approach is the best for now.

Otherwise simply establish rules of conduct, and then it applies to everyone, regardless of age, ethnicity, gender, whatever.

 

what's the punishment of being kicked out of FCA? you can't wear your ferrari logo covered bomber jacket and hat anymore?

 

At this point the kids Dad probably has a REALLY good attorney on retainer, he will never actually pay for any pain/damage he creates. Dad will write the check to cover it.
Whoever he hits or kills will get an attorney, when they "discover" the FCA connection all monetary sums will double at a minimum.
I let my membership expire, we don't have that many events and I quit drinking years ago.
I am not a social butterfly either

I also suspect his acts are on the street and not on a racetrack.
Talking to the local police is most likely a waste of time also, the Dads attorney probably plays golf with the senior judge in the area ........or the District Attorney.

 

And that is exactly why I said set an age limit. A jury would probably find the club negligent for allowing such a young member. Because juries love punishing those they think have money.

 

I never post here but my thoughts anyways.

Don't you think it's kind of cool that 16 year old is interested in FCA? Yes, kids still love sports cars and flashy stuff but for the most part aren't passionate enough to be a member of a long established car club.

Anyways what I'm getting at is why not for the first course of action have a member or two try and take him under their wing and show him the way to enjoy high performance cars responsibly? Track days, performance driving classes etc

 

I just stopped doing group drives. Easier (lazier) than fighting with people. Motorcycle groups were worse so we went to track days only with those (and there you have to still pick groups carefully).

 

You and me both. On motorcycles and cars, I'll sometimes do a run with a buddy or two. We agree to meet up at X place at Y time and then drive separately. Makes it a lot easier to concentrate.

 

I respectfully and constructively disagree on the AGE point.

Generally, I do agree that young (inexperienced) drivers are much more dangerous, on street and track. Part of that is our crap standards of driver training; part of that is poor parenting and supervision; and, in some cases, a small group of parents put razor blades in their kids hands in the form of cars that can get them in trouble (though some teenage drivers can get into trouble in a shopping cart).

I've now seen way too many (Ferrari, Audi R8, Aston, McLaren, AMG, GT-R, et al) cars that are driven by spoiled kids. Seems a lot of expat students from wealthy families crashing these cars is a common news headline (didn't a young expat woman in Illinois just drive her 458 through a store window?). I see way too many "Internet Celebrities" on YouTube thrashing around on video....

Age correlates to all that, but is not the only indicator. I must spend 40-50 days a year at race tracks, and I can assure you there are an equal number of "spoiled brat teenagers" who are aged 25-55. Ego, denial of a lack of skill, unwillingness to listen....typically the car doesn't know the age of the driver.

This issue is also personal to me, as I have a 14 year old daughter who has been racing since she was 8 years old. She competes in National and International level karting, and has been in a "race car", on track, since she was 11. (to be clear, we started her in a Fiat Abarth, now an MX5.....not a 911 Cup Car). We've also invested in real, professional coaching, insist on perfect behavior, focus on her skills and judgment, and constantly reinforce. Her car control is annoyingly good.

Our club/track had to work with the insurance company to allow younger drivers; they have a solid "process" to train, supervise and evaluate. Age 13 and up are eligible....

She's among the quickest, cleanest and most courteous drivers. She frequently catches and passes Porsches, and also has to be careful as she shares the track with V8 Radicals. Our local club "signed her off" for solo driving long ago, and she's successfully raced in the club series. (she cannot race in SCCA, IMSA, et al until she is 15 and has a waiver, but we're in no rush).

Equally, our club has a number of 16-18 year old kids who are well on their way to being safe and competent drivers; like us, their parents are engaged and they are learning the right way. I've been on the street with some of them, with them driving, and they have demonstrated good judgment and the right perspective.

SO - to end my rant - it's not about age, at least not in every case. Artificial age limits are crap. I'd be ok with an age limit that allowed for waiverable options. said otherwise, I'd say ALL drivers should demonstrate the required level of competence and judgment appropriate for the venue, activity and group.

I completely get the frustration with "young, spoiled brats who drive like asses" - all I'm pushing back on is the age element.

<<end of rant>>