Telemetry products for track days?

Nice and cheap. Pretty good, one-aspect (lap timer/segment timer) that records a few other parameters (mostly RPM from the OBD-11), but not something that would be valuable for finding out WHERE and HOW to go faster. Just measures if you did or not, real time.

I work full-time with drivers who want to go quicker on-track. Track days, Club Racing, doesn't matter. I've worked with DAQ systems since 1988 (g-Analyst, CDS, Stack. Pi) and it's gotten SO much better, it's not funny. Heck, half the time the systems didn't even work!

The advent of 10Hz GPS has moved the whole ball game forward. Some systems even calculate smoothed g-loads from the time/GPS speed and position differential. Unreal!

Where the technology has gotten so good is that while systems like Marelli's WinTax (on Ferrari Challenge cars) DO require highly specialized knowledge to configure and interpret, newer and less expensive systems like Traqmate, Race Technology, Race-Keeper, Video VBox and AiM (all systems I sell, train and use) can be navigated by the driver, even a non-data geek.

Of all the systems that export usable information to a PC or laptop, which is the ONLY way you'll find out WHERE, WHY and HOW you can improve your own performance, the Traqmate IS the simplest interface and most feature rich COMBINATION.

If you want just video with simple speed overlay, the AiM SmartyCam is terrific (and they are adding a data export feature soon).

If you want data and video in an easy to use package, the VBox Lite or Race-Keeper are the best, IMO.

I've worked with nearly 10,000 drivers since 1982 and the sport and ability to obtain powerful technology has exploded. I don't think the G-Tech Pro ($299) or Drift Box ($499) can hold a candle to a Traqmate (Basic $699) in terms of giving you information you can use to go faster, it's ease of use and the ease of navigation. Plus, Traqmate's ability to color a map according to speeds and forces, as well as to construct a "theoretical best lap" stitched from your best segments, is really valuable.

These systems all measure the same things and with the same accuracy, but if you have a hard time "mining" this information or understanding it, all they do is become an expensive lap timer.

Disclaimer: I sell, use myself and train drivers on every system listed except the G-Tech Pro and DriftBox.

 

At this point I am only looking for something that generates lap times as I’m not actually racing in any type of series/league where transponder would be provided and improvements are required to win races. It’s mostly PCA DE (Drivers Education) and Track Days where you just run as you like. I think my current goal is just to see what type of track times I can generate from the various tracks we have here in Houston, TX. We have 2 or 3 tracks ranging from 1.4 to 2.9 miles in length. So in order to know what type of lap times I am currently running I need something that I can move from track to track and also from car to car as I have 2 cars I will be using and would also like to loan to others to compare lap times. I know a lot has to do with both car/setup and driver but, here again we are just looking for a method of timing. Also there will be traffic which will be slower that will affect my lap times due to the fact that we are not actually racing.

As things progress I’m sure at some point we will then need to move to something more advanced that shows us where we can improve upon but, I don’t see that happing anytime soon, at least not this year. It’s been 10yrs since I was last on an open track (2.9 mile) going full speed with no instructor, I’m just trying to regain where I left off and see if something more transpires from all this. Also in the future would be an inboard camera to document the session and that is where I see the benefits of Traqmate but, these are items that are costly and really no benefit at this time. As we develop and thing progress then we can determine what direction we want to go and I know who to ask.

Both the cars (Ferrari & Porsche) that I will be using are OBD-II compliant.

I did see a product that I liked, the Passport G-Timer GT2 seemed to do the job but, that is no longer made as it’s old technology (2005) and the product is no longer supported and has been dropped.

 

If you are a casual track visitor, and have an iphone4 or iphone 3gs with tomtom gps holder, try "harry's laptimer pro", $15 from iTunes apps store, does amazing things, records videos in hd, overlay on screen data such as G-meter, lap time, speed, trackmap, and with kiwi wifi obdii connector, you can get throttle, rpm, and gear you are in. It uses gps, and every time you pass start/stop, it automatically start new lap (or video if you choose to record)

Since it uses gps and not wires on the track, the accuracy is limited but most reviews were in favor.

I just tried it this weekend and found a few limitations, ie it records one lap of video at a time, and has to skip a lap to drain the buffer to disk, and record the lap after. Also, the overlay data seems slightly lagged. But nontheless these are minor software things that can be improved on.

IT also exports to various formats, including a google earth format to show the track, top speed before braking, G's, etc, as well as generic csv.

at $15, it is an awesome tool for most of casual trackies.

 

I am not sure how cost sensitive you are, but I will put in a plug for the Vbox. For background/ perspective - I started doing DE stuff about 2 yrs ago, now decided I want to try something a little more. I signed up with Spec Ariel Atom series which will require Vbox on all cars.
.
I decided to hook up the Vbox in my Spec E30 BMW to see what I was doing my last DE event. Here is why I think you might want a little more info - I had no idea where I was doing well or poorly. I literally had thought my worst area was best and vice versa. I was given a comparison data set with James Clay's qualifying lap (Bimmerworld driver) in same car type. I was nearly identical to him in most areas, except in the corner where I thought I was doing well. That one corner cost my entire lap time. Without that information, I would have been hunting for lap time all over the track, not fixing what was broken, perhaps making worse what was working. You may not "need" that information to satisfy curiosity, but if you start looking at lap times, I don't see how you will restrain yourself from looking for a faster lap time. This system makes it obvious where you are off. Of course, this assumes you have some quality lap data sets to which you can compare. Worst case, you can take your best theoretical lap(built in feature with Vbox) from multiple laps and work toward that until you get that comparison data set.
.
Peter, "Procoach," helped me set up the system, and he is helping me get up and running in Spec Ariel Atom. I highly recommend going to him, or someone like him to help you out. For me, it has accelerated my understanding of what I am doing, and it spared me the aggravation of figuring out electronics and how to use the software to my advantage. I am just lucky he lives near by and frequents my home base at VIR. If you or anyone on this forum found your way to VIR one day, I would be happy to show you the system if I'm around.
.
Long winded, sorry

 

one of the things I love about the traqmate is so many people use it. It is often easy to get a file from someone else and overlay to see what they are doing in a particular area that can help you. If you need something to go from car to car the traqmate is also great as you can get an optional battery pack to run it. I have done this for years with different customer cars and it works great and sets up in less than 5 minutes. Battery will last all day.

If all you care about is lap times grab an iphone or droid app.

 

If you have an iphone, try Harry's Lap Timer Pro. Not bad for $14.00! And you can get a cable to wirelessly transmit data from your OBD II port to the app which gives data on the car.

 

ProCoach,

Sounds like Traqmate might be the solution since the GTech will not be able to generate more as I progress with my driving, while it could solve my needs right now for generating generic lap times I think your right when you said, “it’s valuable for finding out WHERE and HOW to go faster”. As I had pointed out before I’m such at an early sage with all this but, things are moving along for more track time set for this year.

We just had a track session in April at H2R in San Marcus, TX and while my lap times felt faster with each session I really had no way of know just how fast. I know for sure the areas that needed improvement but, that comes with exposure/experience nevertheless I did have a professional instructor who owns/drives a 360CS telling me what I was doing right or wrong at every turn and that was a HUGE help.

I regret not buying something that could have at least documented my lap times to benchmark my sessions at that track. This way I can see later on just how much I may have improved when I return again to that track in the future.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=320757

Ciao,

SRR

 

With the popular growth of the Apple iPad do you think in time we will see some track telemetry apps from some of the big names like Traqmate, VBox, to make on track reviews vs. the bulky laptop or personal computer which would most likely be downloaded at home after the session? I would image some who have time in between sessions could review their previous session to see where he is most likely making mistakes and or where others are going faster. A perfect tool for the instructor who is teaching his students on improving lap times, a quick review after the session?

Nothing wrong with laptops but, iPads are more and more common on travel trips and are much lighter and easier to carry and offer a clear display. A perfect way to review lap session before or after you hit the track. They may not be the best for open sunlight usage due to glare but, in the shade, car or under an umbrella it could be a useful tool?

Ciao,

SRR

 

Actually, I use a MacBook Air and MacBook Pro 15" at the track running Windows under Boot Camp.

It's likely what I will be doing soon is using laptops to load the information, then using this remote desktop app (http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/desktop-connect/id364907570?mt=8) for the iPad to wirelessly connect to the laptop and go through the information with clients.

I guess it helps that that's what I'm doing most days, these days...

Unlikely Traqmate or the others (except for possibly RaceKeeper) will make a OS X or iOS 5 compatible application. Not enough folks, I'm afraid.

Tech-y folks, just not enough.

 

Hi,
I am the Dev of the TrackCam App (http://www.trackcamapp.com/). Just have a look at it and if you are interested contact me and I will send you a free Promo Code to give it a try.

Regards

 

Browsing through I didn't see anyone mention QStarz. They make a fantastic GPS lap timer that maps out the track, does lap times, sector times, you can compare laps, etc. It's a very very usable device, extremely cheap, so easy to use my two year old cousin could do it, and it's reliable. Check it out: http://www.qstarz.com/Products/GPS%20Products/BT-Q1000EXQR-F.htm

I love mine and have never had a problem with it, it is extremely accurate.

 

I am using iPhone 4 and will take you up on your offer. I will send you a pm. Not much info on your web site?

ciao,

SRR

 

Here is a sample off a Vbox. FYI - this is footage from the Spec Ariel Atom series.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85XwqwPlp1Q&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL[/ame]

 

Still poking around on the market for a Lap Timer, Data logger, Video camera.

I have a questions for those that use iphone or GoPro stuck inside your windshield or rear glass.

1. How do you turn on your camera once your locked into your seat?

2. What system offers a remote to start/end for the vid?

3. Who offers a system with such a device or is editing at home just part of the job?

Ciao,

SRR

 

There is now a hard-wired remote for the GoPro, plus the new Hero 2 has a wireless remote as an accessory coming out shortly. Traqmate will offer a hardware interface that turns on, starts, stops and automatically synchronizes (with their optional software) the data and video. THAT'S the TICKET!

I've tried (and own) a QStarz BT-Q1000ex and the RaceChrono and they just don't do it for me. The GPS engine is not very good (given to drop-outs) and the analysis software is blingy, but not terribly useful nor detailed.

I now have in stock the AiM Solo, which at $100 USD less than the RaceLogic PerformanceBox is even better, IMO. It's packaging is great and it's a lap timer with a "kick." It automatically knows at which worldwide circuit you are located, it has a 10 Hz GPS engine and it has very good accelerometers for braking/acceleration and cornering. It can draw very good track maps and again, it's from one of the top names in the industry.

With the AiM Solo, you can use the "industrial strength" Race Studio 2 software (as well as TrackVision or another software program to overlay the data on a video post event).

There's tons of stuff out there...

 

Here's another GPS based lap timer and vehicle dynamics data logger to consider: GPX Pro by XT Racing. I bought this 2 years ago because I did not want to have to invest in separate systems for my motorcycles and my track car. I needed something that would be easily portable between the two vehicle types. I've been very happy with the GPX Pro. I used a hard mount for the bikes, and a windshield suction cup for the car. Besides lap times and split times, it log acceleration and deceleration Gs and, via the laptop data analysis module, translate that into throttle on/off & braking on/off. It can also handle 5 channels of data acquisition.

It also has a digital dashboard function (tach, temps and shift lights) that is primarily designed for bikes, but can be adapted for cars if you know where to pull the correct signals.

 

Peter is the man when it comes to info on all the data acq systems. He makes it his business to know them all.

If you have a GoPro already or that's the direction you are looking to go, you can get one of the hardwired remote start/stop cables from Tony at YnotMotorsports. You can reach him at [email protected].

Hope this helps!

Cheers & C U @ d'Track!!
C

Chuck Hawks,
Pro-Driver Coach, Instructor & Facilitator
rEvolution Performance Driving System ©

 

Don't forget the just release AIM Solo DL which can use a can-bus feed to give you better data logging through the OBD2 port along with plug a SmaryCam for auto syncing the video with the data. Just got mine this week and I am waiting for a chance to try it out next time out coaching. See you the track Peter.

 

Thanks for the kind words, Chuck! Need to send you the MoTeC plug-in so you can generate and read your own data off of iRacing! That'll keep you busy... <grin>

Yes Seth, Devin said I'd have my DL's next week 'cause Clay bought AiM's Solo DL inventory out! <grin>

I like the plug and play aspect of AiM, it's clearly better than most all others. The CAN and OBD-II information overlaid onto the SmartyCam video will be very, very useful in our business, much more so than the app toys.

I'm working with one of the quickest F430C cars in the country Sunday and Monday where I've installed an EVO 3 Pro, a SmartyCam with GPS and a gyro to be able to map yaw in a color-coded track map off the steering angle from the CAN to the Marelli data system that is in the car already to illustrate understeer and oversteer. Awesome!

I wish Race Studio 2 would have a window that allowed synchronized video inserted in the data window, but we have TraqStudio for that... <big grin>

See you at the track and PLEASE, tell us all about the BMW DTM car when you get back from the test!

 

I have been using Traqmate for 6+ years, but ultimately I have been growing tired of having to merge the Traqmate data with the HD video from the Sony camcorder and wait for hours for the computer to overlay video and data. I'm fine with the quality of data I'm getting out of Traqmate, but there is so much it doesn't do, like telling me about chassis motion (up and down) per corner, independent wheel speed, dynamic weight changes, understeer/oversteer.

I got a brochure that shows a SmartyCam with a 430 Scuderia interface, apparently it produces video and data overlay all together while recording, but it is not a HD video. The confusing part is the other modules Evo4, Evo3 Pista, MXL , etc.

 

Rad,

You in Miami now? Of do I have the wrong poster? Anyway ping lolaman here on this board. He is a coach and data salesmen. He knows how to do what you want. TM can be upgraded to HD and merged capture. Also 2012 will work with gopro cameras too. Sounds like you have to go to a real logger. maybe DL1.

 

yeah, a little over a year in Miami. Spending time at Homestead, PBIR, Daytona and my favorite of all racetracks in U.S: Sebring.

DL1 is not for me. RaceKeeper is not for me. VBox is nice for videos but I need quality data.

I'm set on AIM, but need a plug and play solution, not a 2nd job.

I produce TM videos in HD, but the processing time is annoying.

 

Just got my AIM Solo DL this past week. I haven't had anything to test it out on as I have been at Daytona testing the M3s and Thanksgiving is this week. I might make it out to Road Atlanta for the Chin Motorsports event this weekend to give it a try.

430GT I think this will be the data system you are looking for as it comes with the CanBus plug for you to retrieve all the data from the stock engine management system. It will also sync up with the SmartyCam at the same time. Put these two together on a system and you have something that is untouchable for the money. I will post some videos and data from the weekend if I get out to the track.

 

Thumbs up for Seth's post. Here's a little more AiM-specific information. The Solo DL/SmartyCam solution is $699/$999 or about $1700, basically within $100 of the three other solutions I sell (as well, I'm the newest AiM dealer ), Video VBOX Lite 2-camera, Race-Keeper or Traqmate/TraqStudio/GoPro HD Hero2, all integrated data/video solutions.

I sold and installed an AiM setup for an F430C that does everything you want to do. It is plug and play for the F430 and F430C, I've done it and tested it at VIR last Monday!

AiM's documentation states you could log the Ferrari vehicle CAN info for the specified parameters recorded (TPS, steering wheel angle, RPM, wheel speeds, oil temp, brake pedal position and a few more) from two places, the Marelli DD-U (Data Display Unit, logger for the Marelli system and supplier of information to the dash) OR the Bosch ECU's behind the passenger seat against the bulkhead.

Using the existing harness connection from the AiM logger (and the CAN wire connection furnished with a Solo DL as opposed to the OBD-II J1979 plug), we got no readable data feed from the Marelli DD-U, but DID get every Marelli parameter and vehicle CAN parameter we wanted from the Bosch ECU. You CAN NOT get Ferrari CAN information from the OBD-II plug, period. You MUST wire into the harness at the appropriate place, which AiM documentation shows very, very well.

I sold my client an EVO3 Pro (for the weather proof cables, additional channels and capacity) with a SmartyCam (for video and to provide the EVO3 with GPS speed and position). We can calculate understeer/oversteer and this job specifically required adding shock pots, which will allow static and dynamic platform analysis, aero loading calculations, roll and roll lag computation and visualization as well as the most important part, comprehensive, objective and DATA DRIVEN shock optimization.

For those F430, F430C and F430 GT2 owners looking for a simple solution to record the vehicle CAN information (and place much of that on the video overlay), buy a Solo DL (CAN as opposed to OBD-II) and a SmartyCam. Buy it from me and I'll help you set it up.

There is no need for the Ferrari specific interface "bridge" harness. The bridge is only required for the SmartyCam to import the information for data overlay over the video when someone is just using the SmartyCam alone.

Because the Solo DL (and other AiM loggers) "decodes" the CAN protocol and supplies that to the SmartyCam real-time, you can just hook up the power wire, install the GPS, configure the unit through Race Studio and go, when equipped with these two units alone.

If you want shock pots or any more expandability, your AiM solution will need, at minimum, a more sophisticated logger like the EVO4 or MXL Pista dash and to add video, the SmartyCam.

Be aware the AiM video cannot be "nested" in another analysis window like TraqStudio does when doing analysis. With AiM Race Studio 2, you can look at the video with data overlay OR the data, but not both. AiM is working on that, but still the best "auto-synched" solution (in HD) is the upcoming Traqmate/GoPro HD Hero2 integration using TraqStudio.

Let me know if I can help. I've got my first Solo DL coming this week and will use it at VIR for the Club Days this coming weekend, testing the Solo DL/SmartyCam interface.

I'll be at Sebring for Rahal's Legends of Motorsports event Wednesday-Saturday 11/30-12/3, if you want to see this stuff close up.

 

Just a quick but enthusiastic endorsement for ProCoach - Peter. I have the 430C Peter mentions, and am very happy with the way things turned out. Looking forward to the next opportunity to test. Thanks Peter!