Tell me why to walk away from this 172

It needs an engine. I think they run about $30k for an old 172, but it may be a little less. I’d be cautious buying a plane run past TBO. What else did the owner defer?

I’d be sure to get a very thorough pre-buy by a mechanic of your choosing before anything else.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This yr will have the old O300 Continental, 145 hp. A newer model with the Lyc O-320, 150hp, would likely be a better option. It would feel like it has much more than 5 additional hp. OH of the older engines is getting much more expensive as (good serviceable) parts are becoming harder to find.

More so than a Ferrari, having a slush fund when buying a used airplane (especially an older one), is a great idea. You could easily be spending that double amount to get an airplane you are comfortable with.

 

'good compression' doesn't mean much at all, but you always hear about it in any used airplane ad. Any mechanic can get 'good compression' numbers. Time SMOH can also be meaningful or mean nothing. If nothing has been done to the engine in that time then it means something. More than likely one or more of the cylinders has been swapped out in those 2300 hrs. When I sold my Mooney it had 1300 SMOH, but the entire bottom end had been torn down, inspected, and re-built only 500hrs before with new mags as well, and all the cylinders had been replaced less than 300 hrs before. So in reality the engine had less than 500hrs since all the major components had been OH'd, but that doesn't meet the FAA definition of major OH.

As Mark alluded to, a knowledgable mechanic is invaluable.

 

How thick is your checkbook?

 

Tillman it’s almost a cliche to say get ready to open your wallet. You know airplanes are not cheap and I’m sure you know what you can afford. But I will say this. Growing up I worked at a number of small airports and have seen several instances of people buying planes like this only to dump them in a year or so because they got so sick and tired of emptying their bank accounts on them. Just make sure and do your homework before pulling the trigger.

 

And need an ADS-B out transponder soon.

 

Yes. Add in another $2500 for that, if you want to do it cheap.

 

Or just stay out of 30mi veils around Class B and fly only in uncontrolled airspace

 

You really should have it. It's important from a safety point of view. I've had ADS-B in my Citabria, and it is amazing how much traffic you now see around you.

 

When I installed TCAS in the Mooney I was amazed at the amount of traffic. It can draw so much focus in the cockpit, having head down instead of out, that sometimes I thought I was better off being blissfully ignorant.

 

Yes, I like the straight tail, no rear window look... I heard they were actually a little faster (everything else being equal).

 

Aren't you buddies with Rob? IIRC, he quit flying because it is a giant expensive constant pain in the ass. Get him on the horn and bend his ear about it. I'm not a type A personality in general, but triply so when it comes to flying....stripped all the fun right out of it before I started.

Wheezy old stinky Cessnas aren't all that fun to pilot or be a passenger in and they cost a lot of money....think a good 308 every 4 years in cost.

A good alternative are sail planes. Not wildly expensive to learn to fly and own. Annuals are a couple thou vs tens of thousands of thou for an asthmatic old Cessna that smells like 60 years worth of farts and armpit.

https://www.alexander-schleicher.de/en/

 

How does he do his 'dog rescue work' with a sailplane... a big reason he's looking, he said...

 

Rent til you get your PPL. You'll know so much more after that.

 

I would keep looking for a 172 with less time on the engine. And try to get into the early 70’s if you can afford it. With the exception of a hanger you can generally operate an airplane that you own cheaper then renting. There are a lot of ways to reduce the costs. One of the best is to use a local independent mechanic, another is to do as much of the owner allowed maintenance as possible. Most independents will let you take the airplane apart for the annual, and the will put it back together.
I have owned many aircraft and I have never kept an engine reserve account. Instead I usually sell them before they get anywhere close to TBO. (Except for a couple that I plan to keep). All of the ones I have sold over the years have been for a profit.
I recently purchased a 150 for 15k and have done a good deal of upgrades on it just because I wanted to. The cost was surprisingly cheap.
The word is out that 172’s are increasing in value. I think AOPA recently reported this in an email to members.

 

Here's my advice. I own a flight school. I am an A&P I/A and I have maintained for several years both of the types of plane I am about to describe.

Stay the heck away from the old 172's prior to 1968. They were all o300 continentals. They are extremely expensive to overhaul for being such a crappy little engine.

Don't rent a plane to learn, you are wasting your money. I rented until I got my PP. Bought a plane a month after and realized that I basically thru 10k away renting. I paid 21K for my first plane. 33k total from 0 time all the way to 1 month past the day I received my PPL. 33k or 23k? what would you rather spend for the same conclusion? I would have had a much better grasp on a lot of things if I had my own plane during training. I can't tell you how many hours I spent sitting in my hangar looking at the plane, understanding it, reading the maintenance manuals etc.... Even for my Instrument ticket, I spent hours out there playing with the old KLN90b GPS....

This is the opposite of my business. If everyone could follow this advice, my doors would be closed lol

Go pick up any mid 60's cherokee. They all use Lycoming 0-320's in one form or another, can be readily had between 10-20k. Much cheaper than a 172. Now buy it fly it and youll sell it for 90% or more of what you paid for it. Especially if you pick one up with a mid time engine. Theres no real price difference out there for a cherokee with 1000 hours or 1400 hours SMOH. By the time you hit 400 hours in a 172 or cherokee you'll be wanting to upgrade to something faster and with an autopilot. You'll sell it, and you will get close to what you paid for it. Trust me. My pa-28's would sip fuel ~6-7gph and the 172's 9-10. 30% difference. ~$4800 in savings over 400 hours.... Roughly $1200 a year. That $1200 a year will cover your insurance (POST PPL CERT) and annual in the cherokee. My insurance for my first year as an owner and a 75 hour pilot with 25k hull 1M was ~$700

Cherokee's are easier to work on than 172's, have less complicated systems, only a couple PITA Ad's. Parts are swappable from a large range of years (1960-1974) and a lot of the newer model parts still fit. The Cessna's had so many changes over the years there are many many different part numbers for the same parts that are not interchangeable.

You literally can't beat a Cherokee 140. Yeah the 172 is easier to get in and out of. You will thank yourself after every annual though. My Cherokee annuals usually were $5-900 and my 172's $11-1500. (Before I was an I/A)

When the full overhaul was needed ( I could have put it back in service for a couple hundred more hours) it had ~2700hrs on it. STAY AWAY From continentals. Lycoming all the way. o320's are bulletproof with the exception of the H2AD.


Just do lots of research before you buy. PM me if you have questions. Good luck =)

 

20 years as an A&P with Biz jets. Very grateful for all of our customers but the costs of owning and operating any aircraft is just insane compared to "the car hobby".
I work in R&D and we prototyped a Garmin GDL88 ADS/B system last year that is going thru cert testing now. The time and engineering it takes to get stuff done is really humbling. I see the costs here in the Aviation section and it scares me away from real flying.

I have 14,000 simulation flight hours running test scenarios in all of our products. (R&D / Test Labs) But it is so expensive to fly "for real".

Failed my IA test by one point several years ago. Just not worth having it as an A&P unless you can use it and justify having the insurance.

Great thread.